U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-25-2011, 03:26 PM
 
19 posts, read 16,678 times
Reputation: 26

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
In reality, his diseased mind was not much different than many white power groups, hate groups, and other far-right groups in the U.S. with the exception that most hate groups in the U.S. hate Jews and Muslims equally.
His "disease" is also identical in structure to the shared disease of all manner of religious moderates in the U.S. and Europe. In his case, it just metastosized to its logical end. That's what moderates don't get, and why they don't equate what he has done with their own daily actions insofar as blind belief in a deity (and all that flows from that) is concerned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-25-2011, 03:48 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 13,311,437 times
Reputation: 15273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
I'm saying that it isn't the great, controlling, oppressive force that you seem to think it is.
That is your opinion, and I take it as such--meaning it is not fact.

Quote:
Do you think the Israelis and the Palestinians don't get along because the tenets of their respective faiths forbid it or because they want the same real estate?
And why are they fighting over it? If the Palestinians were Jews, there would be no argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Did you get past the part where the author is trying to redirect your attention from the distant, non-American, far-from-home tragedy in Oslo to being scared of some crossed-tooth idiots in Michigan and clamoring for the abolition of the evil, nebulous notion of religion?
This is nothing but sarcasm and condescending nastiness on your part and does not deserve a response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
In reality, this has far less to do with U.S. Anti-Muslim thought and far more to do with the perils and idiocy of religion. The Norway shooter was, it appears, a far-right Christian extremist who was a Zionist supporter and a hater of Islam. His entire mantra, from what I've read, was centered around his dislike of a multi-cultural Europe with "Islamification" at the forefront.

In reality, his diseased mind was not much different than many white power groups, hate groups, and other far-right groups in the U.S. with the exception that most hate groups in the U.S. hate Jews and Muslims equally. But, it truly took religion to ignite the gunfire, mayhem and destruction that he caused. Without religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, there would have been far fewer reasons for him to wrap his hate-filled mind around.

Without religion, he may still harbor hatred for people of different skin color, of different traditions, and perhaps different ways of thinking. Hatred and religion are not mutually exclusive. However, it takes something like religion for a person to justify the actions of what he's doing as something "Good in the eyes of God," or rather to put it in his own words, "Horrible but necessary."

The nuttiness, the idiocy, the behavior, and the final actions may not have been solely religiously motivated. But, the nuttiness, idiocy and stupid behavior of religion often goes hand in hand with those who already harbor such instinctual behavior. Religion is often a magnet for these sorts of people because it has so much in common with them. Fictitious imaginings of righteous behavior, violence in the name of something "greater," and belief without evidence of something they are being commanded to do not only ring true for schizophrenia, psychosis, and insanity but also with religion.

There is no difference between a Christian terrorist or a Muslim terrorist except that the media calls a Christian terrorist an "extremist" (not so condemnatory) while a Muslim is apparently the only one who can receive the grand title of "terrorist." In reality, the pathological misconceptions of any brand of religion have proven themselves to produce terrorists, radicals, and psychos of epic proportions. The Norway shooter was every bit as radical, as fundamentally flawed, and as obsessed with the purification of Christianity as any Muslim terrorist with a bomb strapped to his or her chest.

The spotlight indeed should be shone on groups in the U.S. who harbor the same fundamental style of thinking. Christianity groups should not be thought of as any less capable of producing terrorists than any Muslim group. They are both equally destructive forces to humanity, to decency, and to non-violent behavior. It is also time that Christians, especially those in our government, stop blaming Islam as a religion of violence that the vast majority of Muslims don't participate in but also don't speak out against. Much of Christianity in America is just as hate-filled, just as insane, and just as trivially bogus as Islam. While Muslims may be doing the majority of the violence, the shootings in Norway show that Christianity can be just as violent, just as wrapped up in insanity, and just as morbidly dangerous as Islam.
Well, hey, everything from the Inquisition to clinic bombings illustrate that Christianity can be just as violent. Remember George Bush going on about how the war against Saddam Hussein was a crusade? Hmm, yeah.

Great post, GCS. You said it better than I could--probably because you have more patience than I do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 04:45 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,740,053 times
Reputation: 20226
This just solidifies my belief that religion is a disease of the mind. Scientists need to find a cure before humanity is brought to its knees.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Dallas
1,004 posts, read 523,247 times
Reputation: 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
Religion is the undercurrent with politics, not the other way around. Just look at the political atmosphere in our own country - hell, even Nancy Pelosi says we should govern according to the "Word" of God. And blowhards like Bachmann, Perry, Palin and Cain claim that God asked them to run for president. Religious extremism is the undercurrent for a great many of the laws in our country, including abortion, the anti-gay legislation, and even some tax legislation (churches are tax-exempt, for reasons I'll never understand).

While I agree that religion and politics are inextricably linked, I think the God craziness is the one behind the wheel. That needs to stop.
Agreed 100%. The underlying fact is that his actions were influenced (and is his mind justified by GOD and his religion.).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2011, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,427,038 times
Reputation: 7085
Quote:
Originally Posted by moddestmike View Post
Agreed 100%. The underlying fact is that his actions were influenced (and is his mind justified by GOD and his religion.).
This begs the question of "what is his religion?"

It seems he fancied himself a Knight Templar. That's DaVinci Code, bring the Vatican to its knees, great conspirator stuff...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2011, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,427,038 times
Reputation: 7085
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
And why do they want the same real estate? The tenets of their respective faiths have nothing to do with that, right?
The great holiest of holies obviously is a political sticking point, but surely you realize that this isn't even close to the sum of the issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2011, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,427,038 times
Reputation: 7085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
If religion was not so powerful, women wouldn't need the protection from it.
I had another thought while reading over this thread.

This isn't an entirely invalid point that you make, but I'm settling on the opinion that it defeats itself.

There certainly are people with some political clout that would attempt to press legislation attempting to give a particular view of morality the force of law, but if American history is any judge - religion is not as powerful as logic in this place as evidenced by the rights that you and I enjoy that have either been afforded us or remain protected.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2011, 10:40 AM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,915,965 times
Reputation: 15897
I love the statements by Norway's Prime Minister

Prime Minister: Norway Still 'An Open Society' Despite 'The Horror' - National News Story - WLKY Louisville (http://www.wlky.com/nationalnews/28652933/detail.html - broken link)

Quote:
"I think that this will change Norway," Stoltenberg said. "We'll have a Norway before and a Norway after the bomb and the killings." But he added, "Even after these terrible incidents, (Norway) will be an open society."
And Oslo's mayor

Quote:
Breivik's lawyer, Geir Lippestad, told Norwegian broadcaster NRK that his client had expected to be tortured by police and shot during Monday's court proceeding. Breivik is prepared to spend the rest of his life in jail, his attorney said.

But Stang had a different fate in mind: "We're going to punish him with democracy and love," the Oslo mayor told CNN
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2011, 02:11 AM
 
39,202 posts, read 10,880,280 times
Reputation: 5093
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I love the statements by Norway's Prime Minister

Prime Minister: Norway Still 'An Open Society' Despite 'The Horror' - National News Story - WLKY Louisville (http://www.wlky.com/nationalnews/28652933/detail.html - broken link)



And Oslo's mayor
"Breivik's lawyer, Geir Lippestad, told Norwegian broadcaster NRK that his client had expected to be tortured by police and shot during Monday's court proceeding."

I was a bit disappointed to hear 'insane' mooted about for this guy. His thinking seemed perfectly sane to me, and in line with a lot of political thinking. (Religion was just twisted to justify whatever he wanted to believe)
and the 'insane' thing looked like dismissing the fellow's thinking instead of looking seriously at the problem. Of course I'm not saying that I agree with him or his views.

But thinking that he is going to be tortured and shot (projection! That's what he'd do if he was the police) and his identification of a pretty liberal labour government as 'marxist' makes me think that he might indeed be insane since he seems to live in a little world all of his own where inconvenient facts have no place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top