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Old 08-20-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This qualification is a typical misdirect because as long as Israel exists and is supported by the West . . . Islam IS in Dar al Harb (War of Defense). Pretending that the qualification somehow matters in today's real politik is disingenuous.
Looking at it from a religious stand point the Jews were in Palestine long before Islam existed. From the outside world the point of Islam trying to reclaim a land that was not Muslim in the first place is ridicules.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,985 posts, read 31,917,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
As for evolution, I accept micro and macro evolution for all species except man. I do accept micro evolution of man, but I believe man has always been man and came from a single line. Our ancestors probably had some differences from modern man, but man was always man. I still have a long way to go to see how much of what is considered evolution is or is not in conflict with the Qur'an. The big problem here is that most people who are knowledgeable in the qur'an, have limited background in the sciences and those knowledgeable in the sciences have little knowledge of the Qur'an. there is an understanding barrier that needs to be overcome. Until a person really has an understanding of what constitutes Evolution, I doubt if they can form a real opinion as to what parts are in conflict with Islam. The common concepts of evolution are in conflict with the Qur'an, but a lot of the common concepts are also in conflict with biology.
That makes no sense at all...Why would humans be excluded from evolution? Evolution has been proven, tested many, many times over and used every day in medicine and agriculture etc...We even use it to modify our pets and other domestic animals. Your book of myths cannot supersede what is real, known and accepted world wide. ALL life on earth is subject to the evolutionary process.
One has to blind themselves to reality to think otherwise. I think that adhering to ancient ignorance is a sad condition of many religions.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,377,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
Looking at it from a religious stand point the Jews were in Palestine long before Islam existed. From the outside world the point of Islam trying to reclaim a land that was not Muslim in the first place is ridicules.
But remember Islam is a religion not a race. The Palestinians date their roots back to when they were Jews and Philistines. As for being a Race of people in the area, they have been they from even before Judaism or Islam were introduced to the region.

Oddly many of the Jews in pre 1947 Palestine were Arab and very few if any Muslims were Arab. the Palestinians are not an Arabic race they came from Canaanites, Philistines, Nazarenes virtually all of the ancient tribes of the region. Keep in mind that not all Palestinians are or were Muslim. Although in 1948 most of the Palestinian Jews were kicked out and settled in Morocco and Iran for the most part.
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Old 08-20-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here we can get into a long debate over what is self protection and what is aggression. In Islam the only way war can be declared is for self protection.

Who is the aggressor and who is acting out of self protection? I guess that depends on what side of the street you are walking on. the sad part in all wars it is usually the innocent that suffer the most.

Bin Laden saw it as Muslims being attacked and killed by America. America saw 9/11 as an attack by Islam and America is the one acting out of self protection.

The people living in Iraq and Afghanistan only know that for the past 10+ years the counties have been devastated by American bombs.

Where and what is the truth? Who is the aggressor, it seems all we know for certain is who is suffering.
Muslims, because they are forced by other Muslims to believe in certain things and act a certain way; and they are highly oppressed if they speak their mind or live their lifes. It is radical Muslims oppressing and killing moderate ones. it is Muslims denying other muslims the rights they see people have in the superior secular nations. it is Muslims throwing acid in the face of little girls, and it is Muslims doing ethnic cleansing and preparing for wars against our allay Israel: founded upon the understanding that the ottoman empire had fallen and the British empire had won. founded upon the grace of giving Jordan to the Palestinians, who had lost because of their alliance with Germany and Austria.
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Old 08-20-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,377,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This qualification is a typical misdirect because as long as Israel exists and is supported by the West . . . Islam IS in Dar al Harb (War of Defense). Pretending that the qualification somehow matters in today's real politik is disingenuous.
I feel the majority of us see it more as it is a Palestinian war and more political rather than Religious. Although Most of the non-Muslim Palestinians have left, it is still primarily a war of national identities rather than religion. With the exceptions of Iran and Egypt, no Nation has given any military aid to the Palestinians. Although Lebanon, Syria and Jordan have allowed Hizboullah to use their countries as staging points. However, it seems it was actually without Lebanon's consent.

I do admit that we do have groups that consider this to be Dar Al Harb for all Muslims, but I do not think that is a very large percentage. so far the Nations with the largest Muslim Populations Indonesia, Pakistan and India have not declared war on the Western world or the USA, Neither have the Majority of the Arab Nations,
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
Looking at it from a religious stand point the Jews were in Palestine long before Islam existed. From the outside world the point of Islam trying to reclaim a land that was not Muslim in the first place is ridicules.
This shows the radical ignorance of history that most ppl have. They jews were conquered and forced to disperse from Palestine, then the Muslims came and conquered Palestine and they allowed all people to come as long as they didn't proselytize. Then Britain conquered the Ottoman Empire and gave much of Palestine for Jewish Settlement, a secular land now called Israel.
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
This shows the radical ignorance of history that most ppl have. They jews were conquered and forced to disperse from Palestine, then the Muslims came and conquered Palestine and they allowed all people to come as long as they didn't proselytize. Then Britain conquered the Ottoman Empire and gave much of Palestine for Jewish Settlement, a secular land now called Israel.
While it is true Islam "conquered" Palestine there was no Arab invasion. the Palestinians converted to Islam. They were and still are Palestinians and not Arab, although there is a small number of Arabs there. The Palestinians are for the largest part the Philistines of the Bible. Which in Arabic was Falastine and now in English became Palestine.

Yes Israel is not a religious Nation, it is secular and has one of the largest percentages of Atheists of all the Nations. The majority of the Israeli Jews, up to 90%, are not Practicing and nearly half claim they do not believe in God(swt).
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,778,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While it is true Islam "conquered" Palestine there was no Arab invasion. the Palestinians converted to Islam. They were and still are Palestinians and not Arab, although there is a small number of Arabs there. The Palestinians are for the largest part the Philistines of the Bible. Which in Arabic was Falastine and now in English became Palestine.

Yes Israel is not a religious Nation, it is secular and has one of the largest percentages of Atheists of all the Nations. The majority of the Israeli Jews, up to 90%, are not Practicing and nearly half claim they do not believe in God(swt).
Thank you Woodrow, I greatly appreciate this information. You are a wonderful person. I had no idea the Jews had greatly abandoned their religion and that Peter's mission to convert them to Christianity failed so radically.

So about Muhammud's uncle and father's religious beliefs and conversions... I'm still interested to hear the story from a reliable source.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:14 PM
 
Location: England
52 posts, read 51,402 times
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I got a question..

Jesus said- "Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"

so can our muslim friends tell us how Mohammed improved on that when he arrived 600 years later?
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,377,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Thank you Woodrow, I greatly appreciate this information. You are a wonderful person. I had no idea the Jews had greatly abandoned their religion and that Peter's mission to convert them to Christianity failed so radically.

So about Muhammud's uncle and father's religious beliefs and conversions... I'm still interested to hear the story from a reliable source.
As far as I know neither of them ever accepted Islam. We do know both of Muhammad's(PBUH) parent's died when he was very young and he was raised by his Uncle. We do know his family was monotheistic and did not pray to the many Idols most Arab's worshipped.

We also know that Muhammad's(PBUH) family believed the Kablah was the same Alter used by Abraham and all the Prophets. That it was originally white in color. They also believed the Alter was smashed by the pagans.
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