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Old 08-20-2011, 09:27 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
I got a question..

Jesus said- "Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"

so can our muslim friends tell us how Mohammed improved on that when he arrived 600 years later?
I only believe in one pillar of Islam here (so I'm not a Muslim), but:

He didn't really improve on that* (but Woodrow can answer this more definatively). Muhammad thought Jesus was a saint and a miracle from God, as well as a prophet. So he simply continued to spread that message that you quoted above.

* o.k. I got one: he tried to make sure that people knew that Jesus submitted to the Will of God and that God is one and only one, not part of any greek-paganesque demigod trinity

Interesting enough, Charity is not one of the pillars of Christian faith, since Christians currently strapulate that all you need is faith, not works...but doing work shows your faith... so it's iffy.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 08-20-2011 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:45 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
As far as I know neither of them ever accepted Islam. We do know both of Muhammad's(PBUH) parent's died when he was very young and he was raised by his Uncle. We do know his family was monotheistic and did not pray to the many Idols most Arab's worshipped.

We also know that Muhammad's(PBUH) family believed the Kablah was the same Alter used by Abraham and all the Prophets. That it was originally white in color. They also believed the Alter was smashed by the pagans.
I was taught that all the pagan alters were smashed by Muslims. is that so? Also, does the quote above mean that Muhammud's uncle was an iconoclast monotheists, but he chose to disbelieve Muhammud?
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
I got a question..

Jesus said- "Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"

so can our muslim friends tell us how Mohammed improved on that when he arrived 600 years later?
The Qur'an is not a new revelation. It is the very same message that was given to every Prophet from Adam(PBUH) on. Islam did not add one thing new to what had already been given, but the people failed to follow. Call it a reminder and our last chance to finally get it right. It did not bring anything the Prior Prophets(as) did not have. It simply corrected where people had gone astray.


The changes it brought to the Arabs were very dramatic. It gave women rights and demands equality of all people. A Muslim is a Muslim and it applies to all races and genders. It also brought the same messages Jesus(as) taught, but in the form Jesus taught it and not what it became. The Arabs did not have the Message Jesus(as) brought, the Qur'an brought it to them in the manner it was originally given.

Yes Islam has many similarities to Christianity. It is the very same message Jesus(as) actually taught.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:14 PM
 
Location: England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
..Yes Islam has many similarities to Christianity. It is the very same message Jesus(as) actually taught.
The Koran says to stone adulteresses and hang gays and fight infidels and not to have christians and jews as friends.
Is that what Jesus taught too?
It also says Jesus is not the Son of God, and that he wasn't crucified.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
The Koran says to stone adulteresses and hang gays and fight infidels and not to have christians and jews as friends.
Is that what Jesus taught too?
It also says Jesus is not the Son of God, and that he wasn't crucified.
We are not to have Jews and Christians as Walis, that is often translated by those weak in arabic as friend. but a wali is more like a protector in some ways similar to a Catholic Godfather. A person that will keep you on the path of Islam. A person can only be convicted of being gay if their are for witnesses to the act, all saw the exact same thing and can describe the very same act down to the smallest detail. A conviction is impossible to obtain. Again some countries do use it as an excuse to keep the population in fear. iran is probably the worse offender.

The Bible also teaches to stone adulteresses and the Jews along with early Christians applied it with much less proof than Islam demands. In spite of the horror stories you hear, with only one exception there has never been a single woman ever legally stoned for adultery. It is too hard to prove without the ones involved actually reporting it themselves and even then they are given 3 chances to recant and are urged too. yes women have been stoned for adultry, but not in accordance with Islam, it has either been cultural custom or a corrupt government.

True Jesus(as) is not the son of God(swt). He is the Messiah and not the savior or God(as) nor the son of God(swt). that was not a teaching of Jeusu(as) but from the writings of anonymous authors and eventually got associated with being written by the apostles and disciples.

True He was not crucified. somebody was crucified and the onlookers did believe it to be Jesus. but it was not Jesus(as) he had already been lifted up to Heaven.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:40 PM
 
Location: England
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Woodrow quote-
..Jesus(as) is not the son of God(swt)..
..He was not crucified..
..The Bible also teaches to stone adulteresses...
------------------------------------------------------


You say he wasn't the Son of God and that he wasn't crucified.
I say prove it..

Jesus trashed the Old T's cruelty and actually rescued an adulteress.

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Old 08-20-2011, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
Woodrow quote-
..Jesus(as) is not the son of God(swt)..
..He was not crucified..
..The Bible also teaches to stone adulteresses...
------------------------------------------------------


You say he wasn't the Son of God and that he wasn't crucified.
I say prove it..

Jesus trashed the Old T's cruelty and actually rescued an adulteress.
it is impossible to prove a negative. One can only prove if something is true. there is no way to prove a fallacy. the burden of proof is for you to prove Jesus(as) is the son of god, without using the Bible as a reference.


True Jesus(as) did save the Adulteress. According to the bible, but even many Christians now doubt if that story was true, but believe it was a later addition. Even if it was true, it does not say the Jewish law was removed or changed. In fact Jesus(as) is alleged to have said he did not come to do away with or change the law.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: England
52 posts, read 51,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
..the burden of proof is for you to prove Jesus(as) is the son of god, without using the Bible as a reference..
You go first and prove he wasn't the Son of God..
As for the adulteress episode, every true Christian accepts it happened.
Sure, Jesus came to uphold the 10 Commandments, but not the harsh stuff, which is why he threw out stuff like "an eye for an eye" and replaced it with "forgive your enemies".

But please tell us why you prefer being a muslim rather than a Christian, and also how come you live on an indian reservation..?
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:26 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,746,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
The Koran says to stone adulteresses and hang gays and fight infidels and not to have christians and jews as friends.
Is that what Jesus taught too?
It also says Jesus is not the Son of God, and that he wasn't crucified.
In the New Testament, The "adulteres" story is a later and illegitimate addition. Jesus never talked about being kind to gays. Jesus said to abandone all your family, children, and friends if they don't accept true Judaism. And I believe he also said that if they pester you, you should kill them. Plus he said "I come not to bring peace, but to bring division (separate the good from the bad)".
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:34 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,746,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waymarker View Post
You go first and prove he wasn't the Son of God..
As for the adulteress episode, every true Christian accepts it happened.
Sure, Jesus came to uphold the 10 Commandments, but not the harsh stuff, which is why he threw out stuff like "an eye for an eye" and replaced it with "forgive your enemies".

But please tell us why you prefer being a muslim rather than a Christian, and also how come you live on an indian reservation..?
Wrong... read the New Testament. In many parts, he actually made the law harder and stricter. For example, now, just "thinking" about adultery is considered a sin. unmutual divorce (or divorse in general) is considered a sin just as grave as adultery...

These are things that Christians lived by: Constantine killed his wife and child since they weren't Christian, adulterous women were constantly stoned by feudal societies. "I and the Father are one, but the Father is greater than me" is simply pantheism or panentheism, but his followers were too stupid to understand. "Our Heavenly Father"
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