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Old 08-05-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Suicide is more like "Shunning life" right, If we meet God after death, then it wouldn't be shunning him much?

also you accidentally skipped question 5 about how hard it must be to be a muslim and that is why they are so angry. that there is too much emphasis on God's bodily commands and other rituals.

However, Isn't the core of Islam the Five Pillars? which can hardly be said to enslave or imprison you. could you post those five pillars?
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Suicide is more like "Shunning life" right, If we meet God after death, then it wouldn't be shunning him much?

also you accidentally skipped question 5 about how hard it must be to be a muslim and that is why they are so angry. that there is too much emphasis on God's bodily commands and other rituals.

However, Isn't the core of Islam the Five Pillars? which can hardly be said to enslave or imprison you. could you post those five pillars?
My apology. I did overlook question 5. Call it either brain dead or a Freudian slip. I really did not notice it, had to go back and now see it.



5. Doesn't Islam needlessly imprison you (i.e. Sharia-law and praying five times a day)?

Do the 10 commandments imprison a Christian? shariah law is actually not much different. It is difficult to explain shariah in a few words. but it is a legal system, not so much a set of laws. It is also widely misused especially in Pakistan, Saudi and Iran. In Pakistan what is called Shariah is basically pre-Islamic triabal culture. In Saudi it is misused to keep the Monarchy strong. Iran it is used to enforce the Shi'i beliefs, especially those of the Twelvers. Sahriah has little effect on the day to day life of most Muslims the 5 hadd crimes would never be committed by most Muslims anyhow.

What most people see as shariah is illegal enforcement of the 5 hadd (also called Hudd, crimes. Some even include apostasy as a hadd crime. Most scholars of Islamic Jurisprudence do not.

About 90% of the shariah laws are the same as the laws of most nations with similar penalties. the major difference will be found in the Civil laws, especial those relating to Marriage, divorce, property rights, and inheritance. the Civil laws are what most of us implemented in Western Countries as Shariah and to be used only in civil matters dealing only with Muslims. Also shariah laws can not be applied to non-Muslims.

Sorry for the Rant. Simple answer we do not see Shariah as imprisoning or hindering us.

For the 5 Pillars of Faith which ALL Muslims must do their best to follow. They really do not differ much from Judaism or Christianity.

Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophet-hood of Muhammad(PBUH);

Establishment of the daily prayers;

Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;

Self-purification through fasting;

The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Iran it is used to enforce the Shi'i beliefs, especially those of the Twelvers.
What's a Twelver?
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
What's a Twelver?
The Twelvers are a sect of Shi'i that came into prominence in the 1930s. Most Muslims believe only the Ahadith of the first 4 Imams are authenticate. the twelvers follow the first 12 and believe the 12th is the Ayatoullah. they also believe the Ayatoullah is the Mehdi. the belief extends that all Ayatoullahs are the same person, just in different appearance.

In Islam we have no ordained clergy or religious leaders. all Muslims are equal. the twelvers see the ayatoullah as being the "Spiritual Leader" and that his word must be followed. they also believe any fatwahs from the ayatoullah are commandments and must be followed. Less than 12% of the world's Muslims are Shi'a and only a minority of them are twelvers, but they can be a very noticeable group.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Is the Quran the Established Word of God in Islam? As in, is the Quran questionable?
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Is the Quran the Established Word of God in Islam? As in, is the Quran questionable?
We believe the Qur'an is the Word of God(swt) given to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel. We do not believe it to be from Muhammad(PBUH) he was the messenger and only passed on what he heard.

As for is it Questionable. No, but we can and should question any interpretations of it. All men will have their own opinion of what they read. the opinions should be questioned and the reason a person has an opinion must be explained.

We do not accept any opinion as Tafsir (Correct) until we ourselves have verified the credentials and basis for it to be considered tafsir. For this reason most Muslems will cut and paste an interpretation as it is considered a very grave sin if we give a false tafsir.

We should also always question our own opinions and study the tarsir of respected scholars to see if they differ from our own opinions. Islam is always a constant learning. we all need to constantly seek out verification of what we believe and seek out all sources for learning.

Responsibility of our own actions is deeply emphasized. We can never use the excuse we were mislead as it is our responsibility to always verify all things.

Some aids to verification are easily available, the written Tafsir of recognized scholars and the Ahadith. Although even those we are to verify as much as possible.We are not to depend on blind faith, we must always seek a reason for what we believe.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:47 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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where is the original Quran held? or the oldest. What is the Muslim history of how the Quran was written, was it written by Muhammad in one day? I know alot of the secular history I was given about it. such as how Muhammud was illiterate so he told his friends to write it for him. those friends spread parts of it around untill one of the Caliphs decided to make the Muslim cannon by publishing what he considered was the definitive writtings of Muhammuds friends' writting of what Muhammud had told him the Angel had told him about What Allah had told the Angel to tell.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The belief extends that all Ayatoullahs are the same person, just in different appearance.
So, in essence reincarnated? Wouldn't that go against more traditional Islam doctrine (for lack of a better word)?
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Old 08-05-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
where is the original Quran held? or the oldest. What is the Muslim history of how the Quran was written, was it written by Muhammad in one day? I know alot of the secular history I was given about it. such as how Muhammud was illiterate so he told his friends to write it for him. those friends spread parts of it around untill one of the Caliphs decided to make the Muslim cannon by publishing what he considered was the definitive writtings of Muhammuds friends' writting of what Muhammud had told him the Angel had told him about What Allah had told the Angel to tell.
As far as the original there were many perhaps even hundreds of scribes writing down the words, there would be no single original. The original writing were on things that ranged from shoulder bones of sheep and cattle, pieces of wood etc. Paper was scarce. Arabic as a written language was still in it's infancy. The Arabic alphabet had only come into being about 70 years prior to the birth of Muhammad(PBUH) Oral memorization and recitation was the preferred method of preserving words. Even today memorization of the Qur'an is the preferred method of keeping it and the goal of virtually ever Muslim household to have at least one of their children to be a Hafiz, to be a Hafiz a person has to not only memorize the entire Qur'an, but can not vary in the pronunciation of even as much as one letter. there are 4 accepted pronunciation styles, those who learn one style will recite exactly the same as everyone else who uses that style. But all 4 styles sound the same to a person without a sharp ear to detect the tonal qualities.

The first fully compiled Qur'an to be written on paper is still in existance. It is called the Uthman Qur'an compiled by Caliph Uthman it was completed in 651AD 19 years after the Death of Muhammad(PBUH) The order of the Surats are of no importance as each surat is meant to stand alone. The current order found in today's Qur'ans did not come for several centuries after the first writing. The Qur'an was revealed over a 20 year period, between each revelation Muhammad(PBUH) had each shard read to him so he could verify they were what he said.

The Uthman Qur'an is currently in Telyashayakh Mosque in Tashkent, Uzbekastan. There is a second one in the Topkapi Palace in Turkey.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
So, in essence reincarnated? Wouldn't that go against more traditional Islam doctrine (for lack of a better word)?
It is very much in violation of Islamic teachings. Just one reason some Muslims do not consider the Shi'i to be Muslim. But most of use feel that since they do follow the 5 pillars of faith, we have to call them our Brothers, although very misguided Brothers. But in fairness, it must be mentioned many Shi'i feel us Sunni are the misguided ones.
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