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Old 09-18-2012, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,339,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephM View Post
So do you think the concept of houris is a test for men, if they immediately envision themselves having intercourse with the houris it is a strike against them? That is a very interesting perspective to me.

I personally found it offensive that my husband could go to jannah with me and be unfaithful with houris...so I find it a ridiculous concept. And what is supposed to be attractive about women with transparent bodies, who have no mind of their own? The way it is written (in regards to dtailing how their hymen will regenrate) gave me the impression that they were in jannah for sexual gratification.
Taken literally that is what is written. which makes me wonder if it is literal or is there more than what I understand.

If it is to be taken literal, one of the best answers I have seen is from a woman:

Quote:



Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim - In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Hello. Well, I am a Muslim woman so perhaps that gives me a bit of a different perspective. Yes, there will be "**** al-Ayn" in Jannah. They will be a separate creation of Allah, not humans, but like a human woman in most respects, and beautiful and chaste and only with eyes for their husbands in Jannah. How do I, a Muslim woman with a normal amount of jealousy, deal with that?
For the full answer see HERE

Now if it is to understood as an Metaphor, allegory or a lesson, all kinds of answers are possible.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Texas
632 posts, read 1,007,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
Why do Muslims name their children Mohammed if that's the name of the prophet doesn't that mean when the child does wrong you're punishing Mohammed, the child is shaming the name of the prophet?

If Mohammed goes to jail doesn't that also mean he's shamed the name of the prophet and he should die?

Why are there so many named Mohammed in Islam?

Seems hypocritical to me.
The problem is that a lot of these Muslims have nothing better to do with their lives and, due to the urging of righteous-wannabe "religious" clerics, they commit acts of violence and destroy things.

In Islam you are not supposed to imitate, make fun of, or ridicule any Prophet (goes for Moses, Jesus, etc) however, I as a Nizari Ismaili Muslim believe that it is up to God to decide what to do with people who disgrace the Prophets name not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
What does Islam teach regarding Apostasy?

I know what Christianity teaches, and how apostates are dealt with, but if a person decides to leave the Islamic faith, either for another major religion like Christianity or perhaps because of doubts, leading to agnositicism, or atheism, with how are they dealt?
THanks
Again, as a Nizari Ismaili Muslim people choose to leave the religion and, even after attempting to dissuade them they choose to make that decision, we leave that person to his/her devices and let them choose their own path without any pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephM View Post
Why do men, when entering jannah (heaven), receive two houris? What happens to their wife/wives, they just get tossed aside for these houris who are virgins that are fair and beautiful? It was one of my sticking points when my husband and I discussed my conversion...I found the whole idea ridiculous. And I still haven't received an honest explanation.
I have no idea about this concept and I don't even think Ismail's believe in this or can relate to this.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,339,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRage View Post
The problem is that a lot of these Muslims have nothing better to do with their lives and, due to the urging of righteous-wannabe "religious" clerics, they commit acts of violence and destroy things.
Here we agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRage View Post
In Islam you are not supposed to imitate, make fun of, or ridicule any Prophet (goes for Moses, Jesus, etc) however, I as a Nizari Ismaili Muslim believe that it is up to God to decide what to do with people who disgrace the Prophets name not me.
Again we agree. although I may be mistaken, I was under the impression the Jafa'ari Madhab demanded punishment for Blasphemy of the Prophets(PBUH)



Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRage View Post
Again, as a Nizari Ismaili Muslim people choose to leave the religion and, even after attempting to dissuade them they choose to make that decision, we leave that person to his/her devices and let them choose their own path without any pressure.
Again we agree. I understand regarding this the Ja'afari is in agreement with the Hanafi Madhab



Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRage View Post
I have no idea about this concept and I don't even think Ismail's believe in this or can relate to this.
I believe this is one of the areas we disagree maybe not to any large extent. Although I am Sunni and follow the Hanafi Madhab I tend to see it as being more of a test than to be taken literally. I could be wrong and do acknowledge most Sunni do take it as being literal.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:13 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,917 posts, read 3,992,555 times
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Thank you Woodrow for answering my question. I had suspected that to be the case, being that ultimately, a Muslim follower would be happy to welcome a person back who has left. I would also think that if one leaves the faith, any faith, goes off and explores on their own and returns to their original faith for whatever reason, then I would think that such person would have a stronger and firmer foundation and rational for their beliefs. More so than for a person who ahs never taken time to explore anything else.

I know what Christianity teaches about apostates, it is considered an "Unforgivable sin" So you are saying that in Islam it is not an unforgivable sin if one returns to Allah and is sincere?

You are also saying that one who leaves should be welcomed back into the fold. THis is in contrast to Christianity, again, especially with Paul's teachings, where he told the church in Corinth not to welcome back those who were cast out. This makes apostasty in Christinaity as a one way street, no forgiveness or second chance available.

Thus, in Islam, are there unforgivable sins ?
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,339,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Thank you Woodrow for answering my question. I had suspected that to be the case, being that ultimately, a Muslim follower would be happy to welcome a person back who has left. I would also think that if one leaves the faith, any faith, goes off and explores on their own and returns to their original faith for whatever reason, then I would think that such person would have a stronger and firmer foundation and rational for their beliefs. More so than for a person who ahs never taken time to explore anything else.

I know what Christianity teaches about apostates, it is considered an "Unforgivable sin" So you are saying that in Islam it is not an unforgivable sin if one returns to Allah and is sincere?

You are also saying that one who leaves should be welcomed back into the fold. THis is in contrast to Christianity, again, especially with Paul's teachings, where he told the church in Corinth not to welcome back those who were cast out. This makes apostasty in Christinaity as a one way street, no forgiveness or second chance available.

Thus, in Islam, are there unforgivable sins ?
the one unforgivable sin in Islam is shirk.

The concept of sin differs a little from that of some Christians. We do not believe sin is a sin because it hurts God(swt). We believe a sin to be anything that leads you away from heaven.

With that in mind the only unforgivable sin is Shirk, the sin of worshiping anything besides Allah(swt) Which makes sense as by worshiping a false god one is worshiping and placing their hopes of salvation on something that can not grant it. Sort of like wanting to go to New York but taking the plane to Melbourne Australia.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
632 posts, read 1,007,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here we agree



Again we agree. although I may be mistaken, I was under the impression the Jafa'ari Madhab demanded punishment for Blasphemy of the Prophets(PBUH)





Again we agree. I understand regarding this the Ja'afari is in agreement with the Hanafi Madhab





I believe this is one of the areas we disagree maybe not to any large extent. Although I am Sunni and follow the Hanafi Madhab I tend to see it as being more of a test than to be taken literally. I could be wrong and do acknowledge most Sunni do take it as being literal.
I'm not sure exactly how we deal with those who poke fun of Prophets. I do know that one of the tenants of my faith is to respect the law of the land and to leave it up to either the government/courts or God to decide how to punish people, no need for us to be the judge, jury, and punisher.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,339,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRage View Post
I'm not sure exactly how we deal with those who poke fun of Prophets. I do know that one of the tenants of my faith is to respect the law of the land and to leave it up to either the government/courts or God to decide how to punish people, no need for us to be the judge, jury, and punisher.
Again we agree. As Muslims we are to obey the laws of the land we live in. If we can't follow those laws, we are obligated to leave that land.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,874,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Thank you Woodrow for answering my question. I had suspected that to be the case, being that ultimately, a Muslim follower would be happy to welcome a person back who has left. I would also think that if one leaves the faith, any faith, goes off and explores on their own and returns to their original faith for whatever reason, then I would think that such person would have a stronger and firmer foundation and rational for their beliefs. More so than for a person who ahs never taken time to explore anything else.

I know what Christianity teaches about apostates, it is considered an "Unforgivable sin" So you are saying that in Islam it is not an unforgivable sin if one returns to Allah and is sincere?

You are also saying that one who leaves should be welcomed back into the fold. THis is in contrast to Christianity, again, especially with Paul's teachings, where he told the church in Corinth not to welcome back those who were cast out. This makes apostasty in Christinaity as a one way street, no forgiveness or second chance available.

Thus, in Islam, are there unforgivable sins ?
Stop comparing this to Christianity. There is no comparison. I am reading this to learn about Islam, not have you trash Christians.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,874,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
the one unforgivable sin in Islam is shirk.

The concept of sin differs a little from that of some Christians. We do not believe sin is a sin because it hurts God(swt). We believe a sin to be anything that leads you away from heaven.

With that in mind the only unforgivable sin is Shirk, the sin of worshiping anything besides Allah(swt) Which makes sense as by worshiping a false god one is worshiping and placing their hopes of salvation on something that can not grant it. Sort of like wanting to go to New York but taking the plane to Melbourne Australia.
I would expect that includes atheism, which is rejection of all things pertaining to God, and human supremecy.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,339,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
I would expect that includes atheism, which is rejection of all things pertaining to God, and human supremecy.
You will find a wide range of answers in regards to atheism. some of us perhaps most would say an athiest will gain what he believes God will grant him. which would be nothing as he does not believe God exists.Others such as myself believe it depends on how much opportunity the person had to learn of God. We will not be judged for what we have no control over. for all I know there might be an Atheist who sincerely wants to believe, but has not had the chance to find reason to do so.

But, in the end only God knows who will receive heaven God is a much better judge than us humans and will act with pure Justice and mercy.
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