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Old 09-20-2012, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Good questions. I too would like to hear the answers. Thanks for the thoughtful question, claudhopper!
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Good questions. I too would like to hear the answers. Thanks for the thoughtful question, claudhopper!
I also am glad for his questions. I'm also very pleased that RedRage an Ismaili has joined This gives a bit of a broader view as his answers reflect the thought from the Shi'ite sector.

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 09-20-2012 at 08:16 PM..
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I also am glad for his questions. I'm also very pleased that RedRage an Ismaili has joined This gives a bit of a froader view as his answers reflect the thought from the Shi'ite sector.
"her" questions. thank you gentlemen. Yes, I find this thread intriquing. It's a great opportunity for us all.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
"her" questions. thank you gentlemen. Yes, I find this thread intriquing. It's a great opportunity for us all.
Sincere questions are always welcome. I apologize for thinking RedRage was a He
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Sincere questions are always welcome. I apologize for thinking RedRage was a He
oops, sorry
Hope somebody asks another question soon, before I get myself into more trouble. Ok, here's one.
Did you really read Pamela Geller's book? I just got it today.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
oops, sorry
Hope somebody asks another question soon, before I get myself into more trouble. Ok, here's one.
Did you really read Pamela Geller's book? I just got it today.
Actually just the reviews of it. Looks quite interesting.

I did skim through the book but did not fully read it. Hopefully I'll find time to read it all. I always at least try to look at opposing views from me. I believe that one should always at least glance at all sides and not look at only one opinion.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
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You do understand why we fear you, right?
We welcome you to assimilate, but not to dominate.

Comments on the following please:

CAIR Founder: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant”

The founder of the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Omar Ahmad, communicated that directive in 1998, in addressing a group of American Muslims. He added that “the Quran should be the highest authority in America and Islam the only accepted religion on earth”.

Since making that declaration, Islamic sharia law continues to spread throughout the Western world in areas such as the UK, Spain, Australia, Canada, France…and the United States.

For instance, according to Soeren Kern of Stonegate Institute, in France all of the slaughterhouses in Paris and surrounding areas now produce all of their meat in accordance with sharia law. In Italy, approximately 60% of all mosques are under the authority of the sharia advocating Muslim Brotherhood.

In Great Britain and Canada, sharia courts have been established. There are 85 in Great Britain. But, instead of ushering in an era of social cohesion that some had hoped for, it produced a counterculture at odds with Western values.
CAIR Founder:
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,342,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
You do understand why we fear you, right?
We welcome you to assimilate, but not to dominate.

Comments on the following please:

CAIR Founder: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant”

The founder of the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Omar Ahmad, communicated that directive in 1998, in addressing a group of American Muslims. He added that “the Quran should be the highest authority in America and Islam the only accepted religion on earth”.

Since making that declaration, Islamic sharia law continues to spread throughout the Western world in areas such as the UK, Spain, Australia, Canada, France…and the United States.

For instance, according to Soeren Kern of Stonegate Institute, in France all of the slaughterhouses in Paris and surrounding areas now produce all of their meat in accordance with sharia law. In Italy, approximately 60% of all mosques are under the authority of the sharia advocating Muslim Brotherhood.

In Great Britain and Canada, sharia courts have been established. There are 85 in Great Britain. But, instead of ushering in an era of social cohesion that some had hoped for, it produced a counterculture at odds with Western values.
CAIR Founder:
I can understand why many fear us. Some of us seem to have no tact or ability to communicate what we actually mean. Also we do have our share of radicals. It is only a very small minority that would ever seek dominance through force. Although most of us believe that if a person actually understood Islam they would accept it. We do feel one day Islam will be dominate, but through personal choice not coercion. We believe that when Jesus(as) returns all people will accept Islam.

Sharia law is greatly misunderstood as the most common example people see is the wahhabbi concept of Sharia, which accounts for less than 5% of the world;s Muslim. for most of us Sharia can only apply to Muslims and is not to be used for non-Muslims. In the Hanafi madhab which is most common followed by Sunni in the USA, the criminal laws in the USA are acceptable to us we only have an issue with our civil laws not being recognized in affairs involving only Muslims and not violating any criminal laws..It causes problems with us in areas such as Marriage, adoption, inheritance and banking. for example we are forbidden to either pay or charge interest. You can only imagine the problems that arise when trying to buy a house or car. However a few banks are now offering Lariba(Interest free) loans.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,876,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I can understand why many fear us. Some of us seem to have no tact or ability to communicate what we actually mean. Also we do have our share of radicals. It is only a very small minority that would ever seek dominance through force. Although most of us believe that if a person actually understood Islam they would accept it. We do feel one day Islam will be dominate, but through personal choice not coercion. We believe that when Jesus(as) returns all people will accept Islam.

Sharia law is greatly misunderstood as the most common example people see is the wahhabbi concept of Sharia, which accounts for less than 5% of the world;s Muslim. for most of us Sharia can only apply to Muslims and is not to be used for non-Muslims. In the Hanafi madhab which is most common followed by Sunni in the USA, the criminal laws in the USA are acceptable to us we only have an issue with our civil laws not being recognized in affairs involving only Muslims and not violating any criminal laws..It causes problems with us in areas such as Marriage, adoption, inheritance and banking. for example we are forbidden to either pay or charge interest. You can only imagine the problems that arise when trying to buy a house or car. However a few banks are now offering Lariba(Interest free) loans.
I see. Well then the solution is for you to adapt, or do your thing amongst eachother, within your community rather than involving our gov't, local or federal. In other words, by contract. Wouldn't that make everybody happy?
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,342,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
I see. Well then the solution is for you to adapt, or do your thing amongst eachother, within your community rather than involving our gov't, local or federal. In other words, by contract. Wouldn't that make everybody happy?
that is what most of us want to do. However in most areas there are no Islamic communities. Also many of us are born Americans with family roots going back many generations.. I would not fit in a new generation Islamic community as my culture Is apple pie American.

Very few Muslims in the US are Arabic or Mideastern. Most who are, are recent immigrants as most of the older Arab communities in the USA are predominately Christian, not Muslim. My wife is Native American, Cheyenne. Probably more American than most Americans of European ancestry.. Many Native Americans in the midwestern states are Muslim. Islam has been in the Americas since the 1500s. We are not new here. Some have Family trees in America dating back to before the Revolutionary war.


On a personal basis I have no desire to convert anybody and feel that if a person converted because of anything I say, it would be for the wrong reason. I only want things recognized, no changes to the law just recognition of Islamic civil law as Jewish and several other religious civil laws are recognized.

As for halal meat in the stores, that is a marketing thing by the meat producers to get their share of the Islamic market. We can only eat meat that is Halal or Jewish Kosher if Halal is not available. Nearly every other food is halal. unless it contains meat or alcohol. Most foods are naturally halal and require no Muslim involvement to be sold as halal. some store brands are starting to place halal lavels in hopes of getting the Islamic market.
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