U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-04-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,606,883 times
Reputation: 842

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
If the theists didn't have to move those goal posts past what is commonly accepted as solid evidence you wouldn't have to keep trying to convince us.....we'd have conceded already.
Obviously, there can be no concession if what does/does not constitute "evidence" cannot be be universally agreed upon. Belief and non-belief are opposing forces that behave like Yin and Yang.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-04-2011, 08:10 AM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,419,177 times
Reputation: 1376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
But in addition to the Qur'an you will also have to contend with the extraneous reports that the Arabs saved. While this would not serve as proof in a court of law, it would be presentable as evidence in support of any proof.
Sure, you can present 'reports' six centuries later as 'evidence'. And it's about as compelling 'evidence' as would be my claim that Robin Hood really existed ... six centuries ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,342,916 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
Sure, you can present 'reports' six centuries later as 'evidence'. And it's about as compelling 'evidence' as would be my claim that Robin Hood really existed ... six centuries ago.
Well fossil fragments that are millions of years old seem to be acceptable evidence for the past existence of dinosaurs. The validity of evidence will depend upon the original source and the steps taken to keep it unchanged.

The Arab world had considerable contact with the people of Judea even 600 years before Muhammad(PBUH) the reports would have been from eye witnesses. the Question would be the reliability of these reports. The oral historians were quite proficient at keeping chains of authenticity from generation to generation and reliability was preserved by being able to verify multiple sources.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:27 AM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,419,177 times
Reputation: 1376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Well fossil fragments that are millions of years old seem to be acceptable evidence for the past existence of dinosaurs. The validity of evidence will depend upon the original source and the steps taken to keep it unchanged.
Yes. That is a primary source of evidence.

Quote:
The Arab world had considerable contact with the people of Judea even 600 years before Muhammad(PBUH) the reports would have been from eye witnesses. the Question would be the reliability of these reports. The oral historians were quite proficient at keeping chains of authenticity from generation to generation and reliability was preserved by being able to verify multiple sources.
That's fine -- keep telling yourself that reports from ~600 AD are all based on highly-accurate six-centuries-old oral tradition and are not influenced in any way by interceding claims from the ever-growing Christian religion in the area...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2011, 05:06 PM
 
439 posts, read 483,341 times
Reputation: 31
When Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said: This is nothing but clear enchantment.

And when I revealed to the disciples, saying, Believe in Me and My messenger, they said: We believe and bear witness that we submit (ourselves).

When the disciples said: O Isa son of Marium! will your Lord consent to send down to us food from heaven? He said: Be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers.

They said: We desire that we should eat of it and that our hearts should be at rest, and that we may know that you have indeed spoken the truth to us and that we may be of the witnesses to it.

Isa the son of Marium said: O Allah, our Lord! send down to us food from heaven which should be to us an ever-recurring happiness, to the first of us and to the last of us, and a sign from Thee, and grant us means of subsistence, and Thou art the best of the Providers.

Allah said: Surely I will send it down to you, but whoever shall disbelieve afterwards from among you, surely I will chastise him with a chastisement with which I will not chastise, anyone among the nations

************************************************** ******

O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'sa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.


*********************
Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no Ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God -Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,342,916 times
Reputation: 7407
A person can not be a Muslim if he does not love Jesus(as). Jesus is one of the most named people in the Qur'an. We do hold him to be very dear.


Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)

5:114 (Y. Ali) Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 02:24 PM
 
439 posts, read 483,341 times
Reputation: 31
Once Jesus e met Iblis [Satan] and Iblis said, Is it not true that only what has been decreed will happen?

Jesus replied, That is true.
Then Ibls said, So throw yourself down from the top of this mountain, and let us see if you live or not!

Jesus answered, The servant does not test his master; rather, it is the master who tests his servant.(ABU NAIM)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 06:49 AM
 
439 posts, read 483,341 times
Reputation: 31
Jesus, seeing a man stealing,
asked him,

Did you steal?,

the man said, 'No, by Allah, except Whom there is None who has the right to be worshipped'

Jesus said
'I believe in Allah and suspect my eyes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,371 posts, read 10,392,419 times
Reputation: 2627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Jesus in the Koran is probably the best extra-biblical evidence for his existence. People who deny the historicity of Christ have Muslims to contend with.
The Qur'an is based on the Bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Arab world had considerable contact with the people of Judea even 600 years before Muhammad(PBUH) the reports would have been from eye witnesses.
I'd be interested to see these 'eye-witness reports'. Do you have links?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,342,916 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
The Qur'an is based on the Bible.
The Qur'an is not a new messageand never claimed to be. It is the very same message that was given to Adam(as) All of the Prophets(PBUT) and one last time to Muhammad(PBUH) to give us a final chance to keep it right. We humans have a very long history of messing it up, but this is the last chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I'd be interested to see these 'eye-witness reports'. Do you have links?
Not off hand, but we do know that at least one of the Apostles, Thomas passed through Arabia on his way to India, Plus even then the Arabs had Camel caravans passing through Judea on their way to Egypt and beyond. I believe if I get off my tail I can find some old History books that have the accounts of some of these.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top