Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-10-2014, 07:10 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619

Advertisements

Who Murdered Muhammed.


This question is a puzzle for some, while others are not even aware of it.

We know Muhammed made a lot of enemies, raiding and killing his way across the countryside, also he was getting up in years and held the highest position, collecting 20% of the booty for himself.


Our two main suspects are his wife Ashia, and a Jewish woman, but it really could have been anyone.

He had just raided Khaybar several weeks earlier, the last stronghold of the Jews, and ironically the battle cry of the modern day Pallies, "Remember Khaybar".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-11-2014, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,078,401 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Who Murdered Muhammed.


This question is a puzzle for some, while others are not even aware of it.

We know Muhammed made a lot of enemies, raiding and killing his way across the countryside, also he was getting up in years and held the highest position, collecting 20% of the booty for himself.


Our two main suspects are his wife Ashia, and a Jewish woman, but it really could have been anyone.

He had just raided Khaybar several weeks earlier, the last stronghold of the Jews, and ironically the battle cry of the modern day Pallies, "Remember Khaybar".
As to what he had collected for himself. there is no evidence Muhammad(saws) owned anything of value at the time of his death. All evidence is he lived with very few possessions. See HERE

As to the Question of who killed Muhammad(saws) many perhaps most of us do not see that as of any concern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 10:02 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
As to what he had collected for himself. there is no evidence Muhammad(saws) owned anything of value at the time of his death. All evidence is he lived with very few possessions. See HERE

As to the Question of who killed Muhammad(saws) many perhaps most of us do not see that as of any concern.
No, absolutely wrong,

There is no evidence whatsoever of that, and more to the opposite.

I can show you several different discriptions of what happened to muhammeds wealth, including two contradicting ones in Bukhari.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 10:19 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619
Muhammed died a wealthy man, his men even wrote of how much they gained on the raids

His wives all had their own houses, slaves and he had much land.
Even Ashia turned against her own father when he took land she thought was rightfully hers.

Verses from the Quran (www.thenoblequran.com)
Al-Anfal 8:41:
And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allâh, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masâkin (the poor) and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allâh and in that which We sent down to Our slave (Muhammad SAW) on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr) - And Allâh is Able to do all things.
Al-Ahzab 33:27:
And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden (before). And Allâh is Able to do all things.
Verses from the Sahih Bukhari Hadith (www.searchtruth.com)
Book #53, Hadith #351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Booty has been made legal for me."

Book #7, Hadith #331:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me. 1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. 2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. 3. The Booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me. 4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection). 5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,078,401 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Muhammed died a wealthy man, his men even wrote of how much they gained on the raids

His wives all had their own houses, slaves and he had much land.
Even Ashia turned against her own father when he took land she thought was rightfully hers.

Verses from the Quran (www.thenoblequran.com)
Al-Anfal 8:41:
And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allâh, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masâkin (the poor) and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allâh and in that which We sent down to Our slave (Muhammad SAW) on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr) - And Allâh is Able to do all things.
Al-Ahzab 33:27:
And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden (before). And Allâh is Able to do all things.


Perhaps you are seeing as a reason to follow Muhammad, is to gain wealth. I see it as telling us wealth is of little value and the true rewards are for following Allaah(swt) and are not the material things of this world.

33:26 (Y. Ali) And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

33:27 (Y. Ali) And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

33:28 (Y. Ali) O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this World, and its glitter,- then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.

33:29 (Y. Ali) But if ye seek Allah and His Messenger, and the Home of the Hereafter, verily Allah has prepared for the well-doers amongst you a great reward.

33:30 (Y. Ali) O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah.

33:31 (Y. Ali) But any of you that is devout in the service of Allah and His Messenger, and works righteousness,- to her shall We grant her reward twice: and We have prepared for her a generous Sustenance.

33:32 (Y. Ali) O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear ((Allah)), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.

33:33 (Y. Ali) And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

33:34 (Y. Ali) And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them).

33:35 (Y. Ali) For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Verses from the Sahih Bukhari Hadith (
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
www.searchtruth.com)
Book #53, Hadith #351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Booty has been made legal for me."

Book #7, Hadith #331:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me. 1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. 2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. 3. The Booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me. 4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection). 5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind
Why does that strike you as something wrong?

Allaah(swt) did allow fighting in defense and set down rules for what was allowed.

The issue is not over our likes and dislikes, it is over a question if Allaah(swt) did ordain this to be permissible.

In 8:33 we find that God(swt) did indeed say



Moderator cut: English only

WaiAAlamoo annama ghanimtum min shayin faanna lillahi khumusahu walilrrasooli walithee alqurba waalyatama waalmasakeeni waibni alssabeeli in kuntum amantum biAllahi wama anzalna AAala AAabdina yawma alfurqani yawma iltaqa aljamAAani waAllahu AAala kulli shayin qadeerun

8:41 (Y. Ali) And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.

We believe that those are the Actual words of Allaah(swt). Now to understand this we need to know the conditions under which war is allowed.

This is not a command to go out and plunder.

As for 1/5 of the war spoils to be given to "a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer" notice Muhammad(saws) was to get only part of the 1/5th

We also know from the Ahadith, that Muhammad(saws) did not keep any wealth for himself.

Last edited by june 7th; 09-12-2014 at 05:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 05:25 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619
They were not fighting in defence, Muhammed is documented in 78 raide on unarmed and lifhtly armed caracans and settlements, and the raids were for booty.

In many cases the booty was discussed on the way to the raid.
One time muhammeds men even jacked him up, against a tree,, because they thought he was cheating him. 1/5th was the booty taken from all future European raids and is still active today.


Perhaps you are too brainwashed to accept the raids were for booty, not Allah.

Even the first documentation of muhammed, 60 years too late, by Christian sources, calls them the godless pagans, no mention of the Qur'an, muslims, or Islam.

And it is even questionable it is Muhammed they are even speaking of, it is the Mahood, a title and not a proper name.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 05:27 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619
And please, don't say what was from Allah.

You don't even know when Allah was adopted into Islam, the closest we can get is late 8th century
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,078,401 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
And please, don't say what was from Allah.

You don't even know when Allah was adopted into Islam, the closest we can get is late 8th century
You will find it in Use among Arab Christians in the Oldest known Arabic Bible. Kind of Indicates the Arabs were familiar with it as meaning God

The Mt. Sinai Arabic Codex 151 is indeed a most exciting discovery.
It appears to be the oldest Arabic translation of the Bible in existence which was done in 867 AD. Certainly it is the oldest Arabic translation with commentary supplied by the translator. It includes the Biblical text, marginal comments, lectionary notes, and glosses, as found in the manuscript. It was discovered at St. Catherine monastery in Mt. Sinai in the 1800's.

SOURCE

If you wish I can post a screen shot of the codex and circle the Name Allah in it


You may be aware that Hebrew and Arabic are very similar languages especially the Further back you go. the alphabets are quite similar in letter names but the shape of the letters differ, If you Write the Hebrew Name Elohim in Arabic Letters you get Allah both are written Alleph Lam Ha (Arabic)--Alef Lamed Hei being the Hebrew

Allah/Elohim dates back to at least the time of the Torah.

There are Arabic words that sound like Allah but are spelled differently and are not confused in Arabic such as Al Lah (Two words and mean the Highest, Greatest etc) or illah (deity -- corresponds closely to the English god lower case g)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 06:34 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619
The word Allah with different spellings and pronounciations were used for a long time, since recorded history, however Islam's Allah was adopted into Islam in the 8th century.

t doesn't even appear in the Qur'an untill more than halfway through.

Islam's Allah comes from the moon god, a lesser God to Hubal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2014, 06:36 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,428,640 times
Reputation: 619
In Islam, Ilah means God, Allah, is gods name.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:16 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top