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Old 09-15-2011, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,015,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
It also happens to be the force that kick started the population of what we now call the USA.
And the depopulation of the Native Americans. But as far as Europeans are concerned, you're right.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:13 PM
 
5,537 posts, read 5,991,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And therein lies the problem. Why can't people maintain their individual freedoms much less in a land that certainly talks loudly about it?
What I truly don't understand is why make effort to emigrate to a country that apparently does not respect individual freedoms? Why not remain in a society where Islam and Muslims are respected and revered? What's the point of moving to a place you don't like/hate?
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,948,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
What I truly don't understand is why make effort to emigrate to a country that apparently does not respect individual freedoms? Why not remain in a society where Islam and Muslims are respected and revered? What's the point of moving to a place you don't like/hate?
Because perception is king. They perceive America to be free, and then the reality strikes. Thomas Jefferson spoke on the subject, two centuries ago...

"The first settlers in this country were emigrants from England, of the English church, just at a point of time when it was flushed with complete victory over the religious of all other persuasions. Possessed, as they became, of the powers of making, administering, and executing the laws, they showed equal intolerance in this country with their Presbyterian brethren, who had emigrated to the northern government. The poor Quakers were flying from persecution in England. They cast their eyes on these new countries as asylums of civil and religious freedom; but they found them free only for the reigning sect."
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,346,139 times
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I watched your video and was upset with the fact that this is the way we treat American citizens in this day and age, to me it shows the ignorance of a great many people who do not take the time to learn and realize that this is a country of many different religions and beliefs or no belief at all and this is what the constitution of this country guarantees us and it is a shame that there are so many ignorant people in this country. I am a Native American, I am Jah la kee (Cherokee) and we are tolerant of all beliefs and non beliefs, we believe everybody should be treated equally and that whatever their religion and belief may be is not a consideration, we are all the same. The one thing that a lot of people seem to disregard is the fact that we are at war with some Muslim terrorists who happen to believe in Islam, we're not at war with Islam.
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:00 PM
 
Location: USA
19,944 posts, read 14,771,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
For American Muslims, many of us were born here and have roots going back to colonial times. Many if not most of the African Slaves were Muslim and the families continued to be, even to today.. Although some did convert to their owner's religion, the trend seems to be one of returning to their roots.
"Many if not most of the African Slaves were Muslim"
I remember a quote from Elijah Muhammad that said the same thing. It really makes it sound like it was Christians rounding up Africans as slaves, when in fact the Muslim slave trade existed in full force at that time and still does to this day(Which should be addressed since it is current history, which is something we can do something about). A realistic estimate of Muslim slaves was probably closer to 10%.

"I find the claim that a majority of slaves were of Muslim origin to be most unlikely. It is certain thart there were some, no question about this at all, but certainly not a majority since the majority were from coastal communities which were largely animist. Indeed, it was Muslim slavers who raided, and then traded down to the coasts"

African Muslim Slaves in America

http://africanhistory.about.com/od/s...eSlavery01.htm

As a side note most everyone knows that most Nations that currently enjoy official or Defacto Slavery are predominately Muslim: Sudan, Niger, Pakistan, UAE, Indonesia. Not a Christian Nation amongst them.

Where slavery is practiced today

Last edited by LS Jaun; 09-15-2011 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:48 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 11,080,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
How do you suppose people would treat each other is no religion existed? Religion is the root cause of this.
i think a lot of people are afraid of muslims because of sheria law infiltrating our future.. muslims live by the qu'ran, sheria is the qu'ran..
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:19 PM
 
330 posts, read 498,961 times
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When you can have complete freedom of religion in Saudi Arabia, then you can begin to talk about any "lack" of religious freedom in the USA. So I will wait for all muslims all over the planet to demand complete freedom of religion in Saudi Arabia...
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,323,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan View Post
i think a lot of people are afraid of muslims because of sheria law infiltrating our future.. muslims live by the qu'ran, sheria is the qu'ran..
Christian live by the Bible. Western Law is quite a bit influenced by the bible.

No matter where you live the laws will reflect the religious or non-Religious views of the majority. A Muslim has just as much to fear from Christian or jewish laws as a Non-Muslim has from shariah. It is all fear of the unknown.

For the majority of people in this world who follow the teachings of their religion, they probably would never be affected by shariah. there is very little difference between what is legal or illegal in all of the Abrahamic faiths. the differences are more in regards to what can be a legal punishment or how the laws are enforced. it also depends upon what Madhab of shariah is in force. Many sunni follow the Hanafi Madhab andthe Shariah differs very little from western Law. The Shi'i follow the Jafa'ari Madhab, whih is what most westerners believe Sharia to be. Counting the Jafa'ari of the Shi'a there are 5 different madhabs. Shariah will be the dominant madhab of the nation. I believe most Muslims in the USA follow the hanafi.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:55 PM
 
330 posts, read 498,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Christian live by the Bible. Western Law is quite a bit influenced by the bible.

No matter where you live the laws will reflect the religious or non-Religious views of the majority. A Muslim has just as much to fear from Christian or jewish laws as a Non-Muslim has from shariah. It is all fear of the unknown.

For the majority of people in this world who follow the teachings of their religion, they probably would never be affected by shariah. there is very little difference between what is legal or illegal in all of the Abrahamic faiths. the differences are more in regards to what can be a legal punishment or how the laws are enforced. it also depends upon what Madhab of shariah is in force. Many sunni follow the Hanafi Madhab andthe Shariah differs very little from western Law. The Shi'i follow the Jafa'ari Madhab, whih is what most westerners believe Sharia to be. Counting the Jafa'ari of the Shi'a there are 5 different madhabs. Shariah will be the dominant madhab of the nation. I believe most Muslims in the USA follow the hanafi.
You are actually going to compare the "sharia" laws, which are based on 9th century barbaric behavior to secular laws practiced in the west and the usa? non-muslims are considered to have no real rights in sharia states, such as saudi arabia, while muslims have full rights in western nations. It it not "fear" of the unknown, infact we in the usa know all about the sharia laws. Stop the outright lies about sharia law. We all know what it is. And it is barbaric, if sharia law is what you seek, then move to Saudi Arabia or pakistan or Iran or so on. Free people (of whatever religion) will reject laws based upon islam.
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,323,236 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by the-writer-guy View Post
You are actually going to compare the "sharia" laws, which are based on 9th century barbaric behavior to secular laws practiced in the west and the usa? non-muslims are considered to have no real rights in sharia states, such as saudi arabia, while muslims have full rights in western nations. It it not "fear" of the unknown, infact we in the usa know all about the sharia laws. Stop the outright lies about sharia law. We all know what it is. And it is barbaric, if sharia law is what you seek, then move to Saudi Arabia or pakistan or Iran or so on. Free people (of whatever religion) will reject laws based upon islam.
What is illegal under the Hahafi Madhab that is not illegal under Western law? The only thing that should concern non-Muslims would be the forbidding of publicaly spreading any religion except Islam. Saudi follows the Hanabli and Wahabi Madhabs.

Most Muslims in the USA are Sunni of the hanafi madhab.

A quick look at the Madhabs.

Quote:
Theology of the four Madhab

The followers of these four schools follow the same basic belief system but differ from one another in terms of practice and execution of rituals, and in juristic interpretation of "divine principles" (or Shariah) as envisaged in Quran and Hadith. However Sunni Muslims consider them all equally valid.
There are other Sunni schools of law. However, many are followed by only small numbers of people and are relatively unknown due to the popularity of the four major schools; also, many have died out or were not sufficiently recorded by their followers to survive.
Interpreting the Shari'ah to derive specific rulings (such as how to pray) is known as fiqh, which literally means understanding. A madh'hab is a particular tradition of interpreting fiqh. These schools focus on specific evidence (Shafi'i and Hanbali) or general principles (Hanafi and Maliki) derived from specific evidences. The schools were started by eminent Muslim scholars in the first four centuries of Islam. As these schools represent clearly spelled out methodologies for interpreting the Shari'aa, there has been little change in the methodology per se. However, as the social and economic environment changes, new fiqh rulings are being made. For example, when tobacco appeared it was declared as 'disliked' because of its smell. When medical information showed that smoking was dangerous, that ruling was changed to 'forbidden'. Current fiqh issues include things like downloading pirated software and cloning. The consensus is that the Shari'ah does not change but fiqh rulings change all the time.
A madh'hab is not to be confused with a religious sect. There may be scholars representing all four madh'habs living in larger Muslim communities, and it is up to those who consult them to decide which school they prefer.
SOURCE

To understand what is sharia, you have to know what Madhab is being spoken of. there is no single inclusive listing of what is Shariah. My concept of shariah differs from someone from Saudi and we both differ from someone from Iran.

What many call shariah is either Hanabli or Safa'ari. Both of which are limited to just a few countries. The Sufi for instance do not follow any madhab and their legal system seem to be similar to Buddhists.
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