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Old 09-21-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: USA
19,910 posts, read 14,756,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
You deny your own hatred and express irrational hatred in the same sentence. You sir are as irrational and hateful as those you call terrorists. This insanity of my god vs. your god has to stop, it is even more stupid than my dad can beat up your dad, and has consequences that jeopardizes the future of mankind.
"You sir are as irrational and hateful as those you call terrorists."
Not Exactly, Terrorist actually act and don't just Rant.

The main problem I have with Most Religions and Islam specifically, is all you have to do is say you are a person of that faith and you are held in greater esteem and held less accountable for your actions than a person of another Religion: You see it here on CD, instead of primarily attacking their own who have created a violent Islam, they will say "Look, that Christian or Jewish group is doing the same thing". Rather than attacking the cancer within their own Religion they divert the attention elsewhere: "Look at the Evil Zionist in Israel" is a common one. Israelis atrocities against Muslims pale in comparison to the number Atrocities fellow Muslims commit against each other. But, you ask any Muslim in the Middle East who the biggest evil is and they will probably say Israel when in fact it is their own government, another Muslim country next door or someone who interprets their own faith slightly differently who is the biggest threat.

Last edited by LS Jaun; 09-21-2011 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:04 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,993,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
"You sir are as irrational and hateful as those you call terrorists."
Not Exactly, Terrorist actually act and don't just Rant.

Did you even read the irrational, blind, one size fits all hatred express from the tower of complete ignorance expressed by the person I was addressing, or simply join the attack because you belong to the same club of fantasy being followers.

Terrorism takes many forms........ like terrorizing a small child with threats of irrational and unimaginable horrors of burning in hell for misbehaving, for it often messes the kids up for life..
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:34 PM
 
Location: USA
19,910 posts, read 14,756,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Did you even read the irrational, blind, one size fits all hatred express from the tower of complete ignorance expressed by the person I was addressing, or simply join the attack because you belong to the same club of fantasy being followers.

Terrorism takes many forms........ like terrorizing a small child with threats of irrational and unimaginable horrors of burning in hell for misbehaving, for it often messes the kids up for life..
I wasn't debating what you were saying only adding to it: We can talk and debate all we want. What I was getting at is there are millions of people who rant, but very few that take violent action against others. And while Christianity was a major threat to the rest of the civilized world centuries ago it is of no real threat by comparison today.

If I was Muslim living a peaceful existence I would disavow Muslims that live by the sword; The ones that cut off people’s heads on the nightly news or blow up fellow Muslims. It's not the West that makes up these things, they do happen. I used to buy into the fact that "Peaceful" Muslims denounce their violent breathern but 90% of the argument is used by bringing up ancient Christianity and the Crusades and the Inquisition.
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Old 09-21-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
I wasn't debating what you were saying only adding to it: We can talk and debate all we want. What I was getting at is there are millions of people who rant, but very few that take violent action against others. And while Christianity was a major threat to the rest of the civilized world centuries ago it is of no real threat by comparison today.

If I was Muslim living a peaceful existence I would disavow Muslims that live by the sword; The ones that cut off peopleís heads on the nightly news or blow up fellow Muslims. It's not the West that makes up these things, they do happen. I used to buy into the fact that "Peaceful" Muslims denounce their violent breathern but 90% of the argument is used by bringing up ancient Christianity and the Crusades and the Inquisition.
Perhaps you would want to disavow Muslims who "Live by the sword" but the question is how would you know in advance who they are or where they are. Sheikh Terrorist and his cohorts are not open about their location or what they plan to do. They are just as invisible to the Islamic world as they are to the rest of the world. Although I reach a fairly large number of Muslims I doubt very much that even one potential terrorist has ever read one thing I wrote or heard a word I said.

I agree it is not productive to bring up the wrongs of others as an excuse for ones own wrongs. but, it is a difficult temptation to resist. While the vast majority of us are peace loving and do try to correct the wrong doers, that is not as simple as it seems it should be. The question is how does one correct the wrong doers when you can not even communicate with them?
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: USA
19,910 posts, read 14,756,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Perhaps you would want to disavow Muslims who "Live by the sword" but the question is how would you know in advance who they are or where they are. Sheikh Terrorist and his cohorts are not open about their location or what they plan to do. They are just as invisible to the Islamic world as they are to the rest of the world. Although I reach a fairly large number of Muslims I doubt very much that even one potential terrorist has ever read one thing I wrote or heard a word I said.

I agree it is not productive to bring up the wrongs of others as an excuse for ones own wrongs. but, it is a difficult temptation to resist. While the vast majority of us are peace loving and do try to correct the wrong doers, that is not as simple as it seems it should be. The question is how does one correct the wrong doers when you can not even communicate with them?
"While the vast majority of us are peace loving and do try to correct the wrong doers, that is not as simple as it seems it should be."
That’s the $64,000 question. What pulls us out of this downward spiral of intolerance? Identifying and ostracizing those that preach the violence: The Radical Imams like Anwar al-Awlaki or the radical Christians like Rev Wright or the ones that want to push their agenda in our government.

It is possible since these Religions have exhibited long periods of tolerance in the last 1500 years.
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
"While the vast majority of us are peace loving and do try to correct the wrong doers, that is not as simple as it seems it should be."
Thatís the $64,000 question. What pulls us out of this downward spiral of intolerance? Identifying and ostracizing those that preach the violence: The Radical Imams like Anwar al-Awlaki or the radical Christians like Rev Wright or the ones that want to push their agenda in our government.

It is possible since these Religions have exhibited long periods of tolerance in the last 1500 years.
In most of the Islamic Nations there is high tolerance between Christians and Muslims. In a recent poll 69% of the people in Pakistan favor the building of more Christian Churches. SOURCE (http://www.daily.pk/nearly-70-pakistanis-support-christians-to-build-churches-in-pakistan-14350/ - broken link)

There are at least 6 Christian Churches in Tehran, Iran SOURCE

Nearly every Islamic nation has Churches and a fairly large Christian Population. A strange paradox, the caretakers of the holiest spot in Christianity, "the Church of the Holy Sepulcher" are Muslim. The Church has been entrusted to the care of Muslims for Hundreds of years. HERE



The only thing we know about awlaki is that he is last known to be hiding in Yemen. He is quite interesting born here in the USA showed no signs of supporting terrorism gained recognition as a knowledgeable scholar and next we hear he was a fugitive and Hiding in Yemen. In hind site he showed signs of becoming hostile towards the USA in the 1990's is alleged to have been an al-Qaeda recruiter. But keep in mind al-qaeda was fighting the Russians in Afghanistan at that time, so apparently he was not considered anti America.

He does present a bit of a paradox, He currently has an active website and has over 100 videos presently showing on youtube. He seems to be reasonably intelligent has an engineering degree from the University of Colorado. Speaks English better than he speaks Arabic, has dual Yemen/USA citizenship. Presents himself as a devout Muslim, yet has an arrest record for soliciting prostitutes. A bit of an enigma.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:33 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,495,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I do not know the OP's intent. But my intent is to let people know the truth about Islam. We are probably the most misunderstood and most hated of religions. Much because of unwarranted lies spread about us. some of the lies are really just simple misunderstandings. Others such as the book with the Fake Surahs are deliberate fabrications.

We worship the same god of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Jesus(PBUT) as is worshiped by Christians, Jews and Sabians. In beliefs we are closest to the Christians and in practice we are closest to the Jews as we believe the old scriptures still apply to us.

As a Muslim I am under obligation to let people know I am Muslim and to be available to answer any questions I can about Islam. Also I am not to waste my time or another person's time by trying to lead somebody to Islam if he is not interested. I am obligated to do my best to correct any errors people may have about us.

I like reading your posts, Woodrow LI, but sometimess it seems like you are trying to sell something to people who could have or do have all of the things you are trying to sell without Islam. I'm just curious as to why you feel the need to bind yourself to a religion to become a better soul? I did read that you are an ex-christian, as am I (well, an ex-cultural Christian, I suppose), but does that make the Muslim right, instead? I mean, yes, there are good and peaceful Muslims, but does that mean they have the truth? There are good and peaceful Mormons, Amish, Atheists, Agnostics, Christians, and Jews.

As a group, though, are any of them right about everything?

If everybody just started loving we wouldn't need mosques, traditions, prayers, hijabs, pilgramages, and all the other trappings of religion. Why does Allah need any of these things? To prove devotion? Love will bring harmony to this planet and not a single sacrificial lamb, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday gathering of fellow religious folk, prayer, hymn, sermon, Imam, pastor, cell-group, or convert-or-die plea will bring peace to this earth.

Jesus never started a religion. He just wanted people to love their neighbors, but I think the people wanted more out of God. They wanted to be told what to do, what to think, how to behave. They were scared. They wanted revenge. They wanted safety in numbers. But none of this wanting makes organized religion right.

Again, I do like your posts. They are kind, thoughtful, and respectful. Thank you.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I like reading your posts, Woodrow LI, but sometimess it seems like you are trying to sell something to people who could have or do have all of the things you are trying to sell without Islam. I'm just curious as to why you feel the need to bind yourself to a religion to become a better soul? I did read that you are an ex-christian, as am I (well, an ex-cultural Christian, I suppose), but does that make the Muslim right, instead? I mean, yes, there are good and peaceful Muslims, but does that mean they have the truth? There are good and peaceful Mormons, Amish, Atheists, Agnostics, Christians, and Jews.

As a group, though, are any of them right about everything?

If everybody just started loving we wouldn't need mosques, traditions, prayers, hijabs, pilgramages, and all the other trappings of religion. Why does Allah need any of these things? To prove devotion? Love will bring harmony to this planet and not a single sacrificial lamb, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday gathering of fellow religious folk, prayer, hymn, sermon, Imam, pastor, cell-group, or convert-or-die plea will bring peace to this earth.

Jesus never started a religion. He just wanted people to love their neighbors, but I think the people wanted more out of God. They wanted to be told what to do, what to think, how to behave. They were scared. They wanted revenge. They wanted safety in numbers. But none of this wanting makes organized religion right.

Again, I do like your posts. They are kind, thoughtful, and respectful. Thank you.
Thank you for your kind word. I do appreciate them

Like most reverts to a religion I probably am a touch enthusiastic. Converts/reverts are as bad as exsmokers who go off on anti-smoking campaigns.

My reversion to Islam was a bit of a strange experience. Up until the moment I said the Shahadah I was positive I would never want to be a Muslim. By that time I had long left Christianity and had become agnostic posing as a Buddhist and toying with the idea of atheism. Allaah(swt) had to work hard to convince me different.

My long boring story can be read here: A long Journey to Reach Home - Protected Pearls

Oddly my beard is what fully convinced me Islam was the right path. People of my race normally have very little facial fur except for a thin scraggly mustache that looks like a dieing emaciated caterpillar. I'm predominately Lietuva Lipkas (Lithuanian Tatar) and basically of Mongolian ancestry. After never shaving in my life I grew a fist length beard the first Ramadan after I reverted. I was 65 years old at the time.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,695,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You are speaking falsely and offering no true statement to agree with. the nonsense you speak of is not in the Qur'an.

They are no ayyats that command us to kill except when needed in defense when attacked. Murder and harming others are among the worse of sins. Even when attacked and fighting in defense we are commanded to always give the enemy the opportunity to surrender and to stop fighting if they cease their attack.

Rape is absolutely forbidden and one of the 4 crimes that can be punished by death.

Where do you keep finding all of that poison you believe is in the Qur'an?

If you have actual statements that back up what you are saying, show them. But, there are no such things in the Qur'an.

Is your faith in your beliefs so weak you can not justify your own beliefs so you attempt to discredit others? Your words show you have no interest in learning, so you resort to attempts at reducing others, to make your own beliefs appear to be better in relation to your lack of belief.
I suspect you use the word "propaganda" (favorite word of muslims) like it was meaningless. No sir I spoke all truth, if it was not truth then I would have not said it. That entire cult book preaches to kill thy neighbor if they don't believe what they believe.

My faith has nothing to do with one of such hate. And yes I already posted the actual statements to back me up. Would you like 10 more? 20 more? 100 more? I have an easier plan. Just read your book and you tell me. Only problem is you agree with hateful teachings. Us civilized people do not. So you see killing as morally correct if they don't agree with you and we civilized people just look away if they don't agree with us.

I subscribe to tolerance of others as well as to choose rather then be told to kill anyone who does not agree with me. You don't but we civilized people find that despicable. But since you have us all so scared to say anything to offend you for fear of being bombed we shut up like little pansies. That is also despicable

Last edited by desertsun41; 09-22-2011 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,314,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
I suspect you use the word "propaganda" (favorite word of muslims) like it was meaningless. No sir I spoke all truth, if it was not truth then I would have not said it. That entire cult book preaches to kill thy neighbor if they don't believe what they believe.

My faith has nothing to do with one of such hate. And yes I already posted the actual statements to back me up. Would you like 10 more? 20 more? 100 more? I have an easier plan. Just read your book and you tell me. Only problem is you agree with hateful teachings. Us civilized people do not. So you see killing as morally correct if they don't agree with you and we civilized people just look away if they don't agree with us.

I subscribe to tolerance of others as well as to choose rather then be told to kill anyone who does not agree with me. You don't but we civilized people find that despicable. But since you have us all so scared to say anything to offend you for fear of being bombed we shut up like little pansies. That is also despicable

I try to read or at least listen to one Jus of the Qur'an daily. the Qur'an not a translation, The Qur'an is divided into 30 Jus so each month the complete Qur'an is read. I have still not seen any place where we are commanded to kill anybody. Except in warfare if attacked and there is no other way to stop the attack.
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