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Old 09-23-2011, 04:06 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,456,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAAR84 View Post
bla bla bla terrorism bla bla bla hateful bla bla bla turban bla bla bla veil bla bla bla osama bin laden bla bla bla archaic bla bla bla muhammad bla bla bla iraq bla bla bla 9/11 bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla


This is pretty much all I see when people criticize Islam. BLA BLA BLA.


la ilaha illa allah.
Please show me where I call muslims terrorists, or mention Bin Laden, turbans, or 9/11 in this thread. As far as the other points in your rant, they directly relate to how Islam treats women.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Please show me where I call muslims terrorists, or mention Bin Laden, turbans, or 9/11 in this thread. As far as the other points in your rant, they directly relate to how Islam treats women.
I believe there is a misunderstanding. They relate directly to how some Muslems treat women, not in how Islam treats them. Islam does not treat Women, men, children, or anybody. What you see is how some people think they are justified in mistreating women. Yes, women are mistreat in many parts of the world and even in Muslim dominate countries. But that is not a teaching it is a misplaced desire of some men. But if you assume all Muslim men or even a majority mistreat women, I'll never convince you different.

A person who mistreats women will always find justification for doing so, just takes a little reverse engineering to find sufficient partial facts to achieve the desired conclusion.
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Old 09-23-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
154 posts, read 187,622 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Please show me where I call muslims terrorists, or mention Bin Laden, turbans, or 9/11 in this thread. As far as the other points in your rant, they directly relate to how Islam treats women.
I don't have to show you anything. A simple 'search' function will bring up - with hundreds of results - what I was trying to emphasize. Sure, no doubt, you may not have directly mentioned my above examples but for the most from my eyes it's all the same.

Just one endless string of catch phrases. Time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. It's always the same revolving door of accusations, insults, insinuations, half truths, characters, lies, etc, whatever. It gets old.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:11 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,456,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAAR84 View Post
It gets old.
Poor baby, you've endured listening to something you don't like for a few years...atheists have spent their whole lives listening to religious crap.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
154 posts, read 187,622 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Poor baby, you've endured listening to something you don't like for a few years...atheists have spent their whole lives listening to religious crap.

Don't get me wrong Mercury, i'm not complaining. That's the last thing you'll hear (or in this case... see) me do. If anything, i'm having a laugh at the brainless midgets who attempt to make arguments against Islam.

I'm just making a guess that 99% of people who construct arguments against Islam can't do so without using the ever so popular catch phrases. You included, it seems. It's just the same old recycled garbage time and time again. The same old lies, the same old half truths - from the same worn out non stop reactionaries who could be convinced purple dinosaurs are a threat to the existence of national security. Or that Shariah might suddenly overwhelm the Oklahoma court system. Or that Saddam had WMD's. etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and so on and so forth.

Are you an atheist?
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:21 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,456,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAAR84 View Post
Don't get me wrong Mercury, i'm not complaining. That's the last thing you'll hear (or in this case... see) me do. If anything, i'm having a laugh at the brainless midgets who attempt to make arguments against Islam.

I'm just making a guess that 99% of people who construct arguments against Islam can't do so without using the ever so popular catch phrases. You included, it seems. It's just the same old recycled garbage time and time again. The same old lies, the same old half truths - from the same worn out non stop reactionaries who could be convinced purple dinosaurs are a threat to the existence of national security. Or that Shariah might suddenly overwhelm the Oklahoma court system. Or that Saddam had WMD's. etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and so on and so forth.

Are you an atheist?
I am an atheist, yes. As far as your complaints about the same old lies and half-truths, for the record let me state this:

1: I don't think sharia law will ever be a threat in the USA, and I've never claimed it would.

2: I don't believe 9/11 happened solely because of religion. That would be an ignorant statement to make, since it's far from that simple and there was a lot more behind it.

3: I always, always, always disagreed with our government's decision to go to war in the middle east.

4: I never believed that Saddam had WMDs.

5: I don't think terrorism is a major threat to my country.

Now, what I DO believe:

1: I believe that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and nearly all other forms of religion often seek to limit human knowledge.

2: I believe that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are misogynistic at heart, and most flavors of them are fundamentally flawed in how they instruct their followers to treat women, atheists or anyone that disagrees with them, and the LGBT community.

3: I believe that religion, if it ever had any utility in the evolution of human society, no longer holds that role and is in fact a detriment to scientific and humanitarian advances on this planet.

4: I believe that most religions in general tend to keep their followers ignorant and compliant, and unwilling to question authority.

5: There is nothing beneficial that religion may accomplish that cannot be accomplished better and more effectively by secular means.

6: Religion/god-belief is not necessary in order to be a good, upstanding, moral human being with goals, compassion, motivation, joy, hope, wonder, awe, and love for our fellow human beings.

As far as my general criticism of any religion: I'm an equal opportunity critic. I don't care what religion you follow, it's flawed and I am unafraid to point out those flaws, call out the contradictions, and make it publicly known that I think religious beliefs, supernatural beliefs, and the belief in any sort of creator-being is false, completely unsubstantiated, and ludicrous.

In closing, I don't subscribe to the "Durrrrrrrr....turrrriiiists are gonna take mah country! Them mooooslums are da debbil!" attitude you are implying, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't have any recollection of ever insinuating or outright stating that on these boards. I simply don't care what religion someone follows, if you believe in myths, I think that's particularly ignorant and can even be harmful.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,728,067 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAAR84 View Post
bla bla bla terrorism bla bla bla hateful bla bla bla turban bla bla bla veil bla bla bla osama bin laden bla bla bla archaic bla bla bla muhammad bla bla bla iraq bla bla bla 9/11 bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla


This is pretty much all I see when people criticize Islam. BLA BLA BLA.


la ilaha illa allah.
Maybe you should pay better attention.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:25 PM
 
Location: USA
19,707 posts, read 14,688,921 times
Reputation: 12730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
I am an atheist, yes. As far as your complaints about the same old lies and half-truths, for the record let me state this:

1: I don't think sharia law will ever be a threat in the USA, and I've never claimed it would.

2: I don't believe 9/11 happened solely because of religion. That would be an ignorant statement to make, since it's far from that simple and there was a lot more behind it.

3: I always, always, always disagreed with our government's decision to go to war in the middle east.

4: I never believed that Saddam had WMDs.

5: I don't think terrorism is a major threat to my country.

Now, what I DO believe:

1: I believe that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and nearly all other forms of religion often seek to limit human knowledge.

2: I believe that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are misogynistic at heart, and most flavors of them are fundamentally flawed in how they instruct their followers to treat women, atheists or anyone that disagrees with them, and the LGBT community.

3: I believe that religion, if it ever had any utility in the evolution of human society, no longer holds that role and is in fact a detriment to scientific and humanitarian advances on this planet.

4: I believe that most religions in general tend to keep their followers ignorant and compliant, and unwilling to question authority.

5: There is nothing beneficial that religion may accomplish that cannot be accomplished better and more effectively by secular means.

6: Religion/god-belief is not necessary in order to be a good, upstanding, moral human being with goals, compassion, motivation, joy, hope, wonder, awe, and love for our fellow human beings.

As far as my general criticism of any religion: I'm an equal opportunity critic. I don't care what religion you follow, it's flawed and I am unafraid to point out those flaws, call out the contradictions, and make it publicly known that I think religious beliefs, supernatural beliefs, and the belief in any sort of creator-being is false, completely unsubstantiated, and ludicrous.

In closing, I don't subscribe to the "Durrrrrrrr....turrrriiiists are gonna take mah country! Them mooooslums are da debbil!" attitude you are implying, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't have any recollection of ever insinuating or outright stating that on these boards. I simply don't care what religion someone follows, if you believe in myths, I think that's particularly ignorant and can even be harmful.
I agree with most of the above. As far as an immediate threat to overturning countries, I would say that people who say they are Muslim in the Middle East constitute the highest immediate threat to their neighbors and to us in the form of al-Qaida or like minded groups. Iran comes to mind with threats of destroying Israel. In reality this would result in Irans destruction since Israel already has enough nukes to remove Iran as a threat. Why Iran would push this demonstrates the insanity in that country. The religion that could be the largest threat would of course be Christianity or a people identifying themselves as Christians only because the bulk of the west still identifies itself as Christian based and the west has the most WMDs.

Sorry, back to the OP.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
I agree with most of the above. As far as an immediate threat to overturning countries, I would say that people who say they are Muslim in the Middle East constitute the highest immediate threat to their neighbors and to us in the form of al-Qaida or like minded groups. Iran comes to mind with threats of destroying Israel. In reality this would result in Irans destruction since Israel already has enough nukes to remove Iran as a threat. Why Iran would push this demonstrates the insanity in that country. The religion that could be the largest threat would of course be Christianity or a people identifying themselves as Christians only because the bulk of the west still identifies itself as Christian based and the west has the most WMDs.

Sorry, back to the OP.
The problem is that any Nuke attack on Iran would also be destructive to Israel. The entire region is quite small.
Quote:
The total area of the State of Israel is 8,630 sq. miles (22,145 sq.km.), of which 8,367 sq. miles (21,671 sq. km.) is land area. Israel is some 470 km. (290 miles) in length and about 85 miles (135 km.) across at the widest point
SOURCE

To put it is perspective North Dakota is 70,704 square miles. You can fit 9 Israels into the State of North Dakota. The Area of the Standing Rock Reservation in ND is 9,251 square miles, roughly the same size and shape of Israel.

Tel Aviv, Israel is only 985 miles from Tehran, Iran. Other cities within Israel are within 300 miles from some cities in Iran. Much too close to use Nukes if you do not want to harm your own people.

This would be like if the Standing Rock Rez tried to Nuke the state of Minnesota. Not a wise move to make the Fall out would probably do more damage to Standing rock than to MN. same with Israel and Iran. the fall out from any nukes on Iran would probably do more damage to Israel.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: USA
19,707 posts, read 14,688,921 times
Reputation: 12730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The problem is that any Nuke attack on Iran would also be destructive to Israel. The entire region is quite small. SOURCE

To put it is perspective North Dakota is 70,704 square miles. You can fit 9 Israels into the State of North Dakota. The Area of the Standing Rock Reservation in ND is 9,251 square miles, roughly the same size and shape of Israel.

Tel Aviv, Israel is only 985 miles from Tehran, Iran. Other cities within Israel are within 300 miles from some cities in Iran. Much too close to use Nukes if you do not want to harm your own people.

This would be like if the Standing Rock Rez tried to Nuke the state of Minnesota. Not a wise move to make the Fall out would probably do more damage to Standing rock than to MN. same with Israel and Iran. the fall out from any nukes on Iran would probably do more damage to Israel.
Actually, at their closest point Israel and Iran are 550 mi apart. With the Jet stream flowing from Israel in the direction of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan would suffer much of the potential fallout. Additionally, typical weather patterns in and around Iran and the gulf could drive the fall out south. Of course local conditions at the time could have an affect but the odds are low that it would favor air flow in the direction of Israel. You, as a former pilot can easily see this.

Is it likely that this would happen, No. Considering Saudi Arabia and much of the rest of the Middle East has more to fear from Iran than Israel, the Israeli air force would most likely fly unopposed to their targets in Iran.
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