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Old 09-19-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
And yet here you are, denying the atrocities your misguided faith espouses and promotes.
I have never been taught as much as a single word of hate by Muslims nor have I seen any atrocities that are condoned by or are compliant with the Qur'an.

Even when I hated Muslims and fought against them I never was mistreated by any Muslim any place on earth. I was very much anti-Islam in my younger years and did see Islam as being a religion of terror. Until I finally learned what it really is.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,910,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
True, Islam is based upon personal responsibility and it is up to each of to verify that we are following Islam. We are to constantly question and seek answers from as many sources possible and to always verify what we believe and stand ready to to show proof. We are not to have blind faith and to always seek verification. We are not to follow any leader unless we have proven to ourselves he is correct,

While we all have our own opinions, that is what they are, our own opinions. We are not to pass anything off as a true interpretation unless we have shown we can be trustworthy in tafsir.

Islam is a life of learning. we begin our learning from our elders, to following a madhab and from recognized scholars whose tafsir has been proven. Following a Madhab of Sharia is a necessity for Muslims to keep a level of agreement among us. but we are free to choose which Madhab of Shariah we find to be true. we are encourged to study all Madhabs and follow only one or none, based upon what we personally have proven to be true.

When we tell one of our Brothers or Sisters they are not following Islam, we must back up our words with indisputable references.

If Islam has one universal command that command is "Read, read, read than verify all that you read." It is all personal responsibility. No man leads us to heaven or Hell, we find the Path and verify we are on the right path, always questioning all things.
Woodrow, I don't really follow you around the forums, but from what I've seen, you try to be patient in your explanations and courteous. That being said, are you this way because you were born and raised in a country that, for the most part, at least on paper, ascribe to certain ideals that are basically "civilized." In other words, is your religion mirrored through your socialization or is your socialization mirrored through your religion? I guess what I am asking is, if you were born in, say, Saudi Arabia, would you have such a serene view of Islam or would it be a little more radical (not necessarily meaning you would be a suicide bomber or such)
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: USA
19,790 posts, read 14,711,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I have never been taught as much as a single word of hate by Muslims nor have I seen any atrocities that are condoned by or are compliant with the Qur'an.

Even when I hated Muslims and fought against them I never was mistreated by any Muslim any place on earth. I was very much anti-Islam in my younger years and did see Islam as being a religion of terror. Until I finally learned what it really is.
While I have no hate of Islam and Muslims and I know many including relatives who have been nothing but fantastic, there is plenty of evidence of Muslims not getting along with others that it is impossible to ignore. Including many people of the same cloth can not live peacefully with each other.

Knowing you are a recent convert how did you rationalize ignoring all of the bad when you converted?
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Woodrow, I don't really follow you around the forums, but from what I've seen, you try to be patient in your explanations and courteous. That being said, are you this way because you were born and raised in a country that, for the most part, at least on paper, ascribe to certain ideals that are basically "civilized." In other words, is your religion mirrored through your socialization or is your socialization mirrored through your religion? I guess what I am asking is, if you were born in, say, Saudi Arabia, would you have such a serene view of Islam or would it be a little more radical (not necessarily meaning you would be a suicide bomber or such)
I was actually some what violent in my younger years. Former combat Pilot. I was born in the USA.

But have lived in nearly every country at one time or another. About 10 years of my life was spent in North Africa and the Mideast. I calmed down and started treating people like human beings after Islam found me 7 or so years ago.

At one point I was a very evangelical fundamental Christian, very intolerant of Islam.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The point I made above is that if your courts don't impose the death penalty some Muslims deal it out without the courts anyway.


islam penalty for apostasy - YouTube


Islam & Apostasy - YouTube

if they were dealt it out without the courts, that's a crime punished by law Is not from Islam , Punishment for apostasy has a fixed and strict standards should not be exceeded So, in Muslim countries is rare application, although there are some atheists of Arab living in Muslim countries after they left islam and none hurt them

We Muslims do not reject God's laws in order to satisfy the non-Muslim West, as long as Islam is a religion of Allah, then we will never reject his laws so, Islam is not Only a punishment for apostasy or Adultery but Islam is a way of life, Islam commands and prohibitions, the Muslims must be adhered to.


We will not reject the teachings of the Koran and the Sunnah of the order to satisfy anyone
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,910,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I was actually some what violent in my younger years. Former combat Pilot. I was born in the USA.

But have lived in nearly every country at one time or another. About 10 years of my life was spent in North Africa and the Mideast. I calmed down andof Islam.
Interesting. Thanks for the 'splanation.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
While I have no hate of Islam and Muslims and I know many including relatives who have been nothing but fantastic, there is plenty of evidence of Muslims not getting along with others that it is impossible to ignore. Including many people of the same cloth can not live peacefully with each other.

Knowing you are a recent convert how did you rationalize ignoring all of the bad when you converted?
All the time I lived in North Africa and the Mideast trying to convert Muslims to Christianity at no time was I ever treated with anything but respect by the Muslims I came in contact with. I have never met any Muslim who was not a pacifist and did not even hear of any outside of Palestine until after 9/11. The Muslims that I read about in the news do not resemble any Muslims I know in real life.

Odd switch I spent many of my christian years living in Muslim Nations and now spend my Muslim years living in a Christian nation. From personal experience I have faced much more hate living as a Muslim in a Christian Nation. The treatment my wife and myself have faced at the hands of "Good Christians" makes me sick at ever having been a Christian. Although in fairness, I never meet with any hatred while living as a Muslim in Austin, TX. and the majority here in ND are tolerant. But, there are some very radical Christians up here and we seem to always attract them. I've had my horses killed, have had more hate mail than junk mail and death threats are now almost daily events. But after Viet-nam I swore I would never harm another human again, no matter what they do to me.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
And your point is? That other Archaic religions are just as backwards as yours? Your proving nothing. If all Muslims, Christians and Jews were as peaceful and open as the ones that post here we would all be standing around singing kumbaiya.


"How about just admitting that these violent nuts are not part of your religion." This is the major issue I have with people of religion. Rather than just say that these people are an abomination and are not part of their Religian, thay defend them and bring up examples of other religians that do the same thing.

Punishment for apostasy in each of the three religions Islam, Judaism and Christianity, Before Islam, Judaism and Christianity were applied punishment for apostasy without conditions Without strict laws, then When Islam came, it was limit the punishment for apostasy in narrow Cases and limited Not absolute



So, you must know and knows everyone here Whether was Agnostic Christian, Jewish, Buddhist that the teachings of Islam are from God (Allah) so Punishment for apostasy or any point of the orders and prohibitions of God we are smite to them Because God wants that...

Muslims they was lighted the darkness of Europe, how did you say that their religion is backwards!!
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,533 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
All the time I lived in North Africa and the Mideast trying to convert Muslims to Christianity at no time was I ever treated with anything but respect by the Muslims I came in contact with. I have never met any Muslim who was not a pacifist and did not even hear of any outside of Palestine until after 9/11. The Muslims that I read about in the news do not resemble any Muslims I know in real life.

Odd switch I spent many of my christian years living in Muslim Nations and now spend my Muslim years living in a Christian nation. From personal experience I have faced much more hate living as a Muslim in a Christian Nation. The treatment my wife and myself have faced at the hands of "Good Christians" makes me sick at ever having been a Christian. Although in fairness, I never meet with any hatred while living as a Muslim in Austin, TX. and the majority here in ND are tolerant. But, there are some very radical Christians up here and we seem to always attract them. I've had my horses killed, have had more hate mail than junk mail and death threats are now almost daily events. But after Viet-nam I swore I would never harm another human again, no matter what they do to me.


Very good my brother, Who wants to know the morals of Muslims he must deal with them directly not from the media and propaganda, many non-Muslims living in the Middle East in the comfort and peace none ate them


But the problem of the West,that they gave their minds their fals media who shows to Errors Muslims then says this is islam


thanks
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
Very good my brother, Who wants to know the morals of Muslims he must deal with them directly not from the media and propaganda, many non-Muslims living in the Middle East in the comfort and peace none ate them


But the problem of the West,that they gave their minds their fals media who shows to Errors Muslims then says this is islam


thanks
Odd that after all of this fear of us, the Muslim countries surrounding the Mediterranean are still popular vacation spots for western Christians. Especially Morocco and Egypt.
The ten most visited Cities for 2010, 4 of the 10 are in Muslim countries.

Most visited cities by international tourist arrivals

Paris France

London United Kingdom

New York City United States

Antalya Turkey


Singapore Singapore

Kuala Lumpur Malaysia


Hong Kong Hong Kong

Dubai United Arab Emirates

Bangkok Thailand

Istanbul Turkey


It is probably safer for a Christian tourist to walk through the streets of Riyadh, then to walk the streets of New York, Paris or London.
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