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Old 09-19-2011, 08:19 AM
 
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You have to admire these people for being public about it, since leaving Islam means they face a death sentence.

Ex-muslims explain why they have abandoned Islam « Skeptical Science
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
You have to admire these people for being public about it, since leaving Islam means they face a death sentence.

Ex-muslims explain why they have abandoned Islam « Skeptical Science
Sorry but they do not receive an automatic death Sentence. That only applies if the apostasy is accompanied by treason to the nation they live in. About the only country thatapplies the Death sentence for apostasy is Iran and it has been a number of years since they invoked it, even in the case of an Army colonel, Hamid Pourmad, who became a Pentocastal Minister. He is still alive and well in Iran and is pastor of an Assembly of God Church in Tehran.

Last execution for apostasy in Iran was in 1989. the Hanafi Madhab of Sunni has never held the death penalty for apostasy. The Hanabli Madhab of Saudi does allow it if it includes treason. The Jafa'ari Madhab of the Shi'i allows for it if it is considered Major apostasy. The Jafa'ari Madhab recognizes 2 forms of apostasy minor and major. Major apostasy is if it endangers the Nation of Iran.

There are apostates living openly in every Islamic Nation, some are even quite open about it.

The only 2 Nations that have the Death penalty for apostasy in their laws are Iran and Saudi Arabia and even there it has been seldom invoked.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Here is a link to the blog of an Atheist Apostate in Iran. He is quite well known in Iran, still lives there and seems to be alive.

Iranian Atheist: Apostasy in Iran
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:09 AM
 
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It is great to live in a country where you would NEVER be arrested or executed for you religious choice. It does not matter that executions are rare in Muslim countries for apostasy, the fact that there is even a possibility that one could be arrested and executed is problematic.



The apostate in Islam:

http://www.iheu.org/node/1540
Non-believers - atheists under Islam do not have "the right to life ". They are to be killed. According to Islamic culture, sins are divided into great sins and little sins. Among the seventeen great sins, unbelief is the greatest, more heinous than murder, theft, adultery and so on. Courageous apostates aim to skewer the hypocrisies and inconsistencies of a faith that commands the allegiance of a billion people-as well as the hypocrisies of those Western defenders of Islam who would not tolerate its strictures in their own cultures.


Apostasy and Islam
Undeniably, the traditional position of Muslim scholars and jurists has been that apostasy [riddah] is punishable by death. The longstanding problem of the traditional position, as held by Classical jurists or scholars, can be explained and excused as not being able to see apostasy, an issue of pure freedom of faith and conscience, separate from treason against the community or the state

The death penalty for apostasy in Islam
In many predominately Muslim countries, the punishment for apostasy is death.

Assuming that the individual:

Was a Muslim
Openly rejects Islam,
Has made this decision freely and without coercion,
Is aware of the nature of his/her statements, and
Is an adult. then the penalty prescribed by Shari'a (Islamic) law is execution for men and life imprisonment for women. Drunkards and mentally ill persons are excluded from this punishment because they are considered to be not responsible for their statements.


Moderator cut: deleted

Last edited by june 7th; 09-19-2011 at 11:16 AM.. Reason: In order to adhere to city-data's copyright rules.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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I should note that in the world's largest Islamic Nation, Indonesia, apostasy is not only legal, it is protected in Indonesia's Constitution.

Quote:
“It seems some Muslims in Indonesia display anarchic behavior against people considered as apostates. Ahmadiyah followers have often faced violence or even death on the pretext that the state failed to take legal action,” he noted.
Assyaukanie asserted that the Qur’anic verse, “Let there be no compulsion in religion,” promotes religious freedom.
Nowadays, he continued, more and more Islamic countries have adopted laws that uphold freedom and human rights. “People have become more convinced that sanctions for apostasy are against religious freedom, which is upheld by almost all state constitutions in the world.”
Father Deshi Ramadhani, lecturer of biblical studies at Driyarkara School of Philosophy, told the forum: “Formerly the Catholic Church maintained the principle of ‘no salvation outside the Church.’ This has been abandoned.”
The priest, who has Muslim-Catholic parentage, explained that this change happened when Christians realized salvation is open to all, “because God is merciful.”
Reverend Albertus Patty of Christian Church of Indonesia said that in medieval times, Christian apostates were killed.
He also noted that Indonesia’s Religious Affairs Ministry “has recorded 323 Church synods (denominations),” but a survey indicates “more than 400 synods are not registered yet.” Despite differences among Christian denominations, he added, one unquestionable belief in all Christian Churches is the divinity of Jesus.
JIL coordinator Moqsith Ghazali, moderator of the discussion, noted that differences among religions regarding apostasy are subjective. He invited the audience to refer to something objective in Indonesia’s heritage, the national constitution, which guarantees religious freedom.
SOURCE
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I should note that in the world's largest Islamic Nation, Indonesia, apostasy is not only legal, it is protected in Indonesia's Constitution.



SOURCE
Oh, gosh, that makes it all okay then. Islam is just as big a sham as Christianity and Judaism, yet neither Judaism or Christianity will put a death sentence on you for leaving their faith. Islam is about 500 years behind the rest of the world in a lot of ways. Completely backwards, and an embarrassment to themselves and the countries that allow them to do horrible things.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Oh, gosh, that makes it all okay then. Islam is just as big a sham as Christianity and Judaism, yet neither Judaism or Christianity will put a death sentence on you for leaving their faith. Islam is about 500 years behind the rest of the world in a lot of ways. Completely backwards, and an embarrassment to themselves and the countries that allow them to do horrible things.
At one time the Death penalty was imposed upon apostates in both Judaism and Christianity. the Qur'an does not call for the Death of an apostate. this came into being sometime during the middle ages. Many Islamic countries have stopped the Death penalty completely for all offenses. Saudi and Iran are the only current countries that still allow it for apostasy. Saudi has not imposed the Death penalty for apostasy in over 30 years and is expected to soon abolish it. Iran has not imposed it since 1989. which was the last time any country executed a person for apostacy.

Even under Shariah, the Death penalty was never a punishment for apostasy. although Iran was often quick to label it as treason. There are only 4 Hadd (Hadud) crimes in Islam that allow for the Death penalty as the maximum punishment. the Hanafi madhab of Sharia has never called for the Death penalty.

The 4 Hadd Crimes that could carry the death penalty are:

Theft (sariqa, السرقة)

Highway robbery (qat' al-tariq, قطع الطريق)

Illegal sexual intercourse (zina', الزناء)

False accusation of zina' (qadhf, القذف) [3]

Even though they could carry the death penalty, it is not mandatory, a lessor punishment can be invoked at the discretion of the court.

As for the countries that had executions last year:

Here are the numbers:

2010 - The following 23 countries carried out executions in 2010:

Bahrain (1),
Bangladesh (9+),
Belarus (2),
Botswana (1),
China (2000+),
Egypt (4),
Equatorial Guinea (4),
Iran (252+),
Iraq (1+),
Japan (2),
Libya (18+),
Malaysia (1+),
North Korea (60+),
Palestinian Authority (5),
Saudi Arabia (27+),
Singapore (1+)
, Somalia (8+),
Sudan (6+),
Syria (17+),
Taiwan (4),
USA (46+),
Vietnam (1+),
Yemen (53+)

2011 - As of 5 May 2011 executions have been reported in the following 9 countries during 2011: Bangladesh, China, Iran, North Korea, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, UAE, USA.

Currently 42 Nations world wide still have the death penalty. the USA has consistently been in the top 5 for number of executions per year.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:02 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,425,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
At one time the Death penalty was imposed upon apostates in both Judaism and Christianity. the Qur'an does not call for the Death of an apostate. this came into being sometime during the middle ages. Many Islamic countries have stopped the Death penalty completely for all offenses. Saudi and Iran are the only current countries that still allow it for apostasy. Saudi has not imposed the Death penalty for apostasy in over 30 years and is expected to soon abolish it. Iran has not imposed it since 1989. which was the last time any country executed a person for apostacy.

Even under Shariah, the Death penalty was never a punishment for apostasy. although Iran was often quick to label it as treason. There are only 4 Hadd (Hadud) crimes in Islam that allow for the Death penalty as the maximum punishment. the Hanafi madhab of Sharia has never called for the Death penalty.

The 4 Hadd Crimes that could carry the death penalty are:

Theft (sariqa, السرقة)

Highway robbery (qat' al-tariq, قطع الطريق)

Illegal sexual intercourse (zina', الزناء)

False accusation of zina' (qadhf, القذف) [3]

Even though they could carry the death penalty, it is not mandatory, a lessor punishment can be invoked at the discretion of the court.

As for the countries that had executions last year:

Here are the numbers:

2010 - The following 23 countries carried out executions in 2010:

Bahrain (1),
Bangladesh (9+),
Belarus (2),
Botswana (1),
China (2000+),
Egypt (4),
Equatorial Guinea (4),
Iran (252+),
Iraq (1+),
Japan (2),
Libya (18+),
Malaysia (1+),
North Korea (60+),
Palestinian Authority (5),
Saudi Arabia (27+),
Singapore (1+)
, Somalia (8+),
Sudan (6+),
Syria (17+),
Taiwan (4),
USA (46+),
Vietnam (1+),
Yemen (53+)

2011 - As of 5 May 2011 executions have been reported in the following 9 countries during 2011: Bangladesh, China, Iran, North Korea, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, UAE, USA.

Currently 42 Nations world wide still have the death penalty. the USA has consistently been in the top 5 for number of executions per year.

Many countries have the death penalty. Many countries don't. We are speaking about the death penalty for apostasy in Islam.

Also Judaism and Christianity do not have the violence now that Islam has. They did have violence in the past but for the most part have out grown it.

As to violence the early history of Christianity is comparable to the violence now in Islam. Muslims killing non muslims, and muslims for all sorts of reasons.

Islam has not outgrown its violence. Will the violence coming in the name of Islam end at some point? I would hope so.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Many countries have the death penalty. Many countries don't. We are speaking about the death penalty for apostasy in Islam.

Also Judaism and Christianity do not have the violence now that Islam has. They did have violence in the past but for the most part have out grown it.

As to violence the early history of Christianity is comparable to the violence now in Islam. Muslims killing non muslims, and muslims for all sorts of reasons.

Islam has not outgrown its violence. Will the violence coming in the name of Islam end at some point? I would hope so.
Well for beginners no one has been executed for apostasy by any Nation since 1989. Many if not most Islamic Nations have never executed a person for Apostasy.

As for the Violence in general it has been very much limited to one area of the world. I would venture to say the cause is something besides Islam. Here is a list of all known terrorist(Muslim and Non-Muslim) Attacks in 2010. Nearly all of them identified as being by Muslims were in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Turkey and Pakistan.

LIST

It does not seem to be a world-wide practice of most Muslims.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,180 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
It is great to live in a country where you would NEVER be arrested or executed for you religious choice. It does not matter that executions are rare in Muslim countries for apostasy, the fact that there is even a possibility that one could be arrested and executed is problematic.



The apostate in Islam:

http://www.iheu.org/node/1540
Non-believers - atheists under Islam do not have "the right to life ". They are to be killed. According to Islamic culture, sins are divided into great sins and little sins. Among the seventeen great sins, unbelief is the greatest, more heinous than murder, theft, adultery and so on. Courageous apostates aim to skewer the hypocrisies and inconsistencies of a faith that commands the allegiance of a billion people-as well as the hypocrisies of those Western defenders of Islam who would not tolerate its strictures in their own cultures.


Apostasy and Islam
Undeniably, the traditional position of Muslim scholars and jurists has been that apostasy [riddah] is punishable by death. The longstanding problem of the traditional position, as held by Classical jurists or scholars, can be explained and excused as not being able to see apostasy, an issue of pure freedom of faith and conscience, separate from treason against the community or the state

The death penalty for apostasy in Islam
In many predominately Muslim countries, the punishment for apostasy is death.

Assuming that the individual:

Was a Muslim
Openly rejects Islam,
Has made this decision freely and without coercion,
Is aware of the nature of his/her statements, and
Is an adult. then the penalty prescribed by Shari'a (Islamic) law is execution for men and life imprisonment for women. Drunkards and mentally ill persons are excluded from this punishment because they are considered to be not responsible for their statements.


Additional factors:

If either spouse apostatize from Islam, a divorce is automatic.
If both apostatize they are generally allowed to stay married.
An under-aged male is imprisoned, and only executed if he remains an apostate when he becomes of age.
The will of a male apostate is not valid.
A female apostate's will remains valid.
In the rare instances when an apostate is executed, it is traditionally done by severing his neck with a sword.
Among Malikites, Shafi'ites, and Hanbalites, adult women receive the same penalty as men: execution.
The Shi'ite schools of law allow for Islamic law towards apostates to be applied in non-Muslim countries. The majority "Sunnites do not believe in extraterritorial jurisdiction." 1
Justification for the death penalty is mainly based on two Hadith texts:

"Whoever changes his religion shall be killed." (Abu Dawud)
"It is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam....." (Abu Dawud).


When the Jews and the Christians are NOT apply their religion then say Islam kills the apostate


The texts of the death penalty in Jewish and Christian


Deuteronomy 13:6-11 — "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again"


The death penalty in Judaism

http://messianicsexposed.com/2010/08/05/comment-the-death-penalty-in-judaism/


Actions which demand the death penalty in the Old Testament

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Actions_which_demand_the_death_penalty_in_the_Old_ Testament





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