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Old 10-01-2011, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looktowindward View Post
No. A "security related crime" in Iran is generally considered to be anti-regime activity. Rape is not considered a security related crime.

The Iranian justice system regularly assigns guards to rape female prisoners before death sentences are carried out, so as not to violate Koranic prohibitions against killing virgins.

This is well documented.
Just a question regarding this:

Quote:
The Iranian justice system regularly assigns guards to rape female prisoners before death sentences are carried out, so as not to violate Koranic prohibitions against killing virgins.

This is well documented.
What is your source that says that is well documented?

Rape is one of the Hadud Crimes and an earthly punishment is demanded for all Hadud Crimes. Under the Jafa'ari Shariah of Iran there is no option for extenuating circumstances or the granting of leniency and the maximum penalty for rape (Execution) must be carried out under Jafa'ari Sharia. Under Jafa'ari those guards doing the rape must be executed. Iran is very stict about enfocing Jafa'ari Sharia.

Jafa'ari sharia is a shi'i madhab and as far as I know the only nation that follows Jafa'ari Jurisprudence is Iran.
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:20 PM
 
Location: southern california
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I've read the Qur'an several hundred times,I reat one juz daily which means I read the entire Qur'an each month 1/30th of it each day. so over the past 7 years I've read it a few times. I usually read it in Arabic, but I am familiar with the Translations of Ysuf Ali, Pickthall, Mohsin and a few others.



I'm trying to find what Surat and ayyat you are speaking of I assume you mean Surat 2 ayyat 213

Nope that does not seem to be what you mean.

Can't be 9, 213 as 9 only has 129 ayyats

I have no idea what you mean by Qur'an chp9 sect 2 page 213. That is not how the Qur'an is divided. You may be refering to a Hadith. but for that I will need the name of the Book, there are over 1 million Hadith.

Yes there are seveal Ayyats that non-Muslims think we are told to kill Christians, Jews and polytheists, but all of them are in reference to if we are attacked in war we may protect ourselves. Even then we are to show mercy and not harm non-combatants and only kill if there is no other means to keep from being killed.
from quran -----from chapt 9 :5 )pg 213 "when the months of pilgrim sanctity have drawn away, then kill the ones who are polytheists wherever you find them, and take them and besiege them and sit in each and every place of ambush; but if they repent, and perform the former prayer, and give the purifying alms, then let them go their way;"
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
from quran -----from chapt 9 :5 )pg 213 "when the months of pilgrim sanctity have drawn away, then kill the ones who are polytheists wherever you find them, and take them and besiege them and sit in each and every place of ambush; but if they repent, and perform the former prayer, and give the purifying alms, then let them go their way;"
I see the page number is what is confusing me. the Qur'an is not divided into chapters or page numbers as each translation will differ. The only Qur'an is the arabic one, no Translation is considered to be the Qur'an Those only relate to translations. What you mean is Surah 9 ayyat 5. I'll find a Yusuf Ali translation on line and see if this is what you mean:

Understand Surat 9 is about repentance and is describing a war between believers and non-Believers. It explains how we are to forgive the repentant, just as Allaah(swt) will forgive the repentant. However those who do not repent will face punishment from Allaah(swt) It is an example of how the repententent are forgiven and escape punishment and the unrepentent face punishment.

This is not a commandment to kill non-Muslims.

Quote:

Surah 9. At-Tawba (Repentance, Dispensation)

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

1. A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-

2. Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.

3. And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

9. The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.

10. In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is strictly between them and Allaah(swt) it is not in our power to know why a woman does not wear it and no where does the Qur'an or Ahadith give any man the right to force a woman to wear it. We can tell them it is desired for them to wear it, but the choice has to be her own. If a woman refuses to wear it without just cause and doing so to defy Allaa(swt) she is committing a sin. She alone will have to face Allaah(swt) and explain her reasons, any punishment will be the decision of Allaah(swt) alone.

Here you will find differences of the different Fiqhs of shariah. I just gave my view which is the Hanafi Madhab. However, both the Hanabli Madhab (Saudi) and the Jifa'ari Madhab (Iran) contend a woman can be forced to wear it.
You must be a very progressive Muslim.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
You must be a very progressive Muslim.
Actually I am very typical of a Sunni who follows the Hanafi Madhab. Those who follow the Maliki and Shafi'i madhabs also have very similar views. We differ primarily in the manner in which we pray. And that is small issues such as should we raise our right forefinger and if so should it remain stationary or move up and down or if it is permissable to combine the Asr and Maghreb prayers.

I sometimes think the radical extremists get the bulk of attention and leave the impression that is how all Muslims are.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,609,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actually I am very typical of a Sunni who follows the Hanafi Madhab. Those who follow the Maliki and Shafi'i madhabs also have very similar views. We differ primarily in the manner in which we pray. And that is small issues such as should we raise our right forefinger and if so should it remain stationary or move up and down or if it is permissable to combine the Asr and Maghreb prayers.

I sometimes think the radical extremists get the bulk of attention and leave the impression that is how all Muslims are.
I think you're right!

Earlier I was trying to bait you with a pointed question about Islam. I apologize for that.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,360,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
I think you're right!

Earlier I was trying to bait you with a pointed question about Islam. I apologize for that.
Although I gladly accept your apology. None was needed. I find it to be quite understandable that Islam is misunderstood by much of the world as the media has made our minority lunatic group seem to be the norm.

The majority of us are very laid back and rather quiet. Perhaps too quiet at times. We often have a very "C'est La Vie" attitude about life and readily accept all things as simply being part of our trials in life. Although we make up about 1/5 of the Earth's human population, except for the lunatic fringe bunch we are somewhat invisible to the world.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:15 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 25,040,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftwood2011 View Post
Iranian Pastor Faces Execution For Refusing To Recant Christian Faith | Fox News

Feelin' the love?

Wonder how muslims would act if this was reversed?
We saw that very well when the loon of another peaceful religion in Florida burned the book of a different peaceful religion.

Or a cartoonist drew a picture.

Religious fanatics are loons, and the greatest danger that exists to mankind's future.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
We saw that very well when the loon of another peaceful religion in Florida burned the book of a different peaceful religion.

Or a cartoonist drew a picture.

Religious fanatics are loons, and the greatest danger that exists to mankind's future.
Fanatics, loons and terrorists know no Boundaries. they are all the same be they an individual or a group or even a Government agency.

In this case we either do not know the whole story or some members of Iran's government are using Islam to promote their own wishes.

Based on what the news media is reporting, Iran is not only going against the Qur'an, the Ahadith and Sharia it is even violating it's own constitution.

Apostasy is not a Hadd (Hadud) crime and no punishment for it is mandatory. Even under Iranian law it is legal for a person to be an apostate.

Either we do not know the whole story or some people in Iran have gone off the deep end.
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:47 PM
 
335 posts, read 325,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
We saw that very well when the loon of another peaceful religion in Florida burned the book of a different peaceful religion.

Or a cartoonist drew a picture.

Religious fanatics are loons, and the greatest danger that exists to mankind's future.

Religious fanatics are certainly loons. Get rid of them, and liberals, and the world would be a lot more stable.

Last edited by Driftwood2011; 10-02-2011 at 06:21 PM..
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