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Old 10-20-2011, 05:18 AM
 
307 posts, read 232,999 times
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You're missing the word "Some" in your heading. Asking "Is this what Muslims want for America?" seems to be asking if Muslims as a whole want it, which they don't, from what I can tell. Just "some" do. Judging all Muslims by this group is like judging all atheists by Pol Pot and Stalin, or all Christians by the Westboro Baptist Church. When talking about people like this, let's clarify that we aren't talking about Muslims, atheists or Christians as a whole, but just those on the extremes.
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Old 10-20-2011, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,830,171 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
How can these groups not be treated as terrorist organizations when they are essentially trying to overthrow the government? Put them all on a boat pointed towards Meca.

In Europe and in the US, we must not let them become the majority or all is lost. People like this pinhead above this post won't wake up until it's too late.

And where are the moderate Muslims? Why will they not speak?
Kind of how christians in the US already treat our country with their "morals" being inserted into our laws.

What's the difference? They're both/all WRONG.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:10 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,884,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by sanspeur That probably was only long after the fact that they had colonised those countries.
As long as the Muslims in Europe are using democracy to reach whatever goal it is they want it is fine by me.

I guess this is the main weakness of a democracy; that if the majority of the people in a country want to change their democracy into a theocracy or whatever and they can accomplish this through the democratic process then there is nothing anyone can do.

And that is exactly why separation of church and state (or religion and government) was so important to the founders of the United States, and why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy. Majority DOES NOT rule.


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for dinner"
-Benjamin Franklin
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:14 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,884,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
How are they not worse? Christians abide by the laws of the countries they live in...The Muslims in the video want to create a Taliban type society with their own laws, and they won't be satisfied with the UK or all on Europe...
Are you kidding? Christians are constantly violating the law and Constitution by trying to impose their morals, beliefs and prayers into schools, government and laws. They, just as much as the Muslims wish to create their own talibanesque theocratic society based upon Biblical law.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:35 AM
 
Location: California
4,556 posts, read 5,472,028 times
Reputation: 9613
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
And that is exactly why separation of church and state (or religion and government) was so important to the founders of the United States, and why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy. Majority DOES NOT rule.


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for dinner"
-Benjamin Franklin
I don't agree with your second post but the one above is great.

So, perhaps we should allow anyone who wants to follow them to subject only themselves to having their hands, feet or head chopped off? For me, our U.S. laws aren't as harsh so why would anyone want to import their thirst for blood? In our Christian based laws they are considered pretty harsh. They showed the world their violence which to me is not a religion but a common hate group run by thugs. Where do American draw the line and stop compromising? If we don't stand up for American where and what will stand up for? I don't know, or care, what muslims want for America as it isn't their choice it is our choice.

Think long and hard about who we put in the White House next.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: around the way
656 posts, read 932,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
How are they not worse? Christians abide by the laws of the countries they live in...
Maybe true, but those willing to work within the system seem to do an awful lot of lobbying to get their kind of laws enacted, and the rest of us get taken along for the ride. And there are plenty who would rather just see a violent overthrow of the US Government and the Bible replacing the Constitution as the law of the land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The Muslims in the video want to create a Taliban type society with their own laws, and they won't be satisfied with the UK or all on Europe...They have already tried to get Sharia instituted in Canada.
Again, same with dominionist Christians. You just don't see or hear about them as much because they're a small minority within the majority of US culture. Christian (by definition), mostly white, mostly native-born. They don't have the obvious Otherness of UK muslims, but they're just as hard-core and convinced of their rightness. And sadly they tarnish the names of decent Christians who just want to live their lives like anyone, same as these guys are doing to decent, moderate Muslims.

In no way am I saying that the guys in the video should be allowed to do what they're trying to do, or that they aren't dangerous. Sharia law is a bad idea whether it's in Mecca or Minneapolis. I'm just pointing out that Islam doesn't have a monopoly on would-be totalitarian nutbags.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:09 PM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,679,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
As far as I'm concerned Muslims have no right to even attempt to impose their restrictive laws on any country they immigrate to...


Sharia Law: Battlefield London - YouTube
No. Stop being so afraid of everything.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,373,844 times
Reputation: 3735
Default Some rebuttal points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
...may they get all they deserve and more, I really don't care what they want.
Trust me, Heidi: they will get exactly what they deserve if tehy try to enforce this radical stuff. Even the British & Canadian public ,who are temporarily living in a peaceful slumber-mind, will wake up and exact some form of rejection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Kind of how christians in the US already treat our country with their "morals" being inserted into our laws.

What's the difference? They're both/all WRONG.
I'm constantly reminded of this in the US Pledge of Allegiance, which was oddly allowed to be significantly altered in 1954, largely as a consequence of the frantic with-hunt mentality of Joseph McCarthy, someone no honest and intelligent American should ever be proud of..

Note this:

Between 1924 and 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance was worded:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words "under God." The current Pledge reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

(rifleman notes: as if that change would "protect" the country from 'communism".... Sadly funny, and mindlessly stupid, IMHO.)

The Pledge is recited, on average, tens of millions of times a day -- largely by students in schools across America.

"On 2002-JUN-26, a three judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voted 2 to 1 to declare the Pledge unconstitutional because of the addition of the phrase "under God." This decision only affects the states of AK, AZ, CA, HI, ID, MT, NV, OR and WA. The ruling stating that "the text of the official Pledge, codified in federal law, impermissibly takes a position with respect to the purely religious question of the existence and identity of God."

from this site: Pledge of Allegiance and its "under God" phrase

...who do go on with some excellent discussion. This is, BTW, a Christian discussion website, but they are also quite sensible.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,847 posts, read 30,364,616 times
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They simply want the option to handle affairs between Muslims according to their beliefs. Nowhere does it say that they want to impose this upon non-Muslims. I don't have a problem with it.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:32 PM
 
912 posts, read 720,736 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavemaster View Post
Maybe true, but those willing to work within the system seem to do an awful lot of lobbying to get their kind of laws enacted, and the rest of us get taken along for the ride. And there are plenty who would rather just see a violent overthrow of the US Government and the Bible replacing the Constitution as the law of the land.



Again, same with dominionist Christians. You just don't see or hear about them as much because they're a small minority within the majority of US culture. Christian (by definition), mostly white, mostly native-born. They don't have the obvious Otherness of UK muslims, but they're just as hard-core and convinced of their rightness. And sadly they tarnish the names of decent Christians who just want to live their lives like anyone, same as these guys are doing to decent, moderate Muslims.

In no way am I saying that the guys in the video should be allowed to do what they're trying to do, or that they aren't dangerous. Sharia law is a bad idea whether it's in Mecca or Minneapolis. I'm just pointing out that Islam doesn't have a monopoly on would-be totalitarian nutbags.
I agree, good post
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