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Old 12-12-2011, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,118,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
I think religion can be used to justify violence... Maybe that is what's going on with Islam???
There is no maybe about it. It definitely is.

7:4 How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.
7:5 No plea had they, when Our terror came unto them, save that they said: Lo! We were wrong-doers.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:58 AM
 
1,553 posts, read 1,834,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
There is no maybe about it. It definitely is.

7:4 How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.
7:5 No plea had they, when Our terror came unto them, save that they said: Lo! We were wrong-doers.
The word translated as "terror" is in fact: بأسنا which means: Our might: i.e. God's might.

Your quotations are the translation of the meaning of some ayat, which tell that:

God Himself destroyed the wrong-doing people even after He had sent them His apostles, and they rejected them and kept up to their wrong-doing and idolatry.

These are the two ayat or Quranic revelations:

وَكَم مِّن قَرْيَةٍ أَهْلَكْنَاهَا فَجَاءهَا بَأْسُنَا بَيَاتًا أَوْ هُمْ قَآئِلُونَ
فَمَا كَانَ دَعْوَاهُمْ إِذْ جَاءهُمْ بَأْسُنَا إِلاَّ أَن قَالُواْ إِنَّا كُنَّا ظَالِمِينَ

The explanation:
(Yet how many a community have We destroyed [before you: Mohammed's people, when they denied the messengers],

that Our might [: punishment] came upon them by night, or while they have rest in the noon-time?

Their words, when Our might came upon them, were only: "We, indeed, have been wrong-doers!" [but that did not avail them anything.] )
--------------------------------------

This meaning has been told so frequently in the Quran: that God destroyed and terminated the wrong-doers in the past, and He will destroy and terminate the wrong-doers in the future.


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Old 12-12-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,118,345 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
The word translated as "terror" is in fact: بأسنا which means: Our might: i.e. God's might.

Your quotations are the translation of the meaning of some ayat, which tell that:

God Himself destroyed the wrong-doing people even after He had sent them His apostles, and they rejected them and kept up to their wrong-doing and idolatry.

These are the two ayat or Quranic revelations:

وَكَم مِّن قَرْيَةٍ أَهْلَكْنَاهَا فَجَاءهَا بَأْسُنَا بَيَاتًا أَوْ هُمْ قَآئِلُونَ
فَمَا كَانَ دَعْوَاهُمْ إِذْ جَاءهُمْ بَأْسُنَا إِلاَّ أَن قَالُواْ إِنَّا كُنَّا ظَالِمِينَ

The explanation:
(Yet how many a community have We destroyed [before you: Mohammed's people, when they denied the messengers],


that Our might [: punishment] came upon them by night, or while they have rest in the noon-time?

Their words, when Our might came upon them, were only: "We, indeed, have been wrong-doers!" [but that did not avail them anything.] )
--------------------------------------

This meaning has been told so frequently in the Quran: that God destroyed and terminated the wrong-doers in the past, and He will destroy and terminate the wrong-doers in the future.

Thanks for proving my point.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,173,926 times
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That does rather disprove this thread's title, doesn't it?
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:09 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,024,501 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
The word translated as "terror" is in fact: بأسنا which means: Our might: i.e. God's might.

Your quotations are the translation of the meaning of some ayat, which tell that:

God Himself destroyed the wrong-doing people even after He had sent them His apostles, and they rejected them and kept up to their wrong-doing and idolatry.

These are the two ayat or Quranic revelations:

وَكَم مِّن قَرْيَةٍ أَهْلَكْنَاهَا فَجَاءهَا بَأْسُنَا بَيَاتًا أَوْ هُمْ قَآئِلُونَ
فَمَا كَانَ دَعْوَاهُمْ إِذْ جَاءهُمْ بَأْسُنَا إِلاَّ أَن قَالُواْ إِنَّا كُنَّا ظَالِمِينَ

The explanation:
(Yet how many a community have We destroyed [before you: Mohammed's people, when they denied the messengers],

that Our might [: punishment] came upon them by night, or while they have rest in the noon-time?

Their words, when Our might came upon them, were only: "We, indeed, have been wrong-doers!" [but that did not avail them anything.] )
--------------------------------------

This meaning has been told so frequently in the Quran: that God destroyed and terminated the wrong-doers in the past, and He will destroy and terminate the wrong-doers in the future.

So were the 9/11 bombers acting in allah's will?
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,065,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGeek View Post
So were the 9/11 bombers acting in allah's will?
It is his will we all have the ability to make our own choices, even the choice of disobeying the commandments of Allaah(swt).
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:04 PM
 
4,082 posts, read 5,040,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is his will we all have the ability to make our own choices, even the choice of disobeying the commandments of Allaah(swt).

Your running a circle around the question. Absolutely the terrorists thought they were doing Allah's will and that they would go to paradise.

But my question has always been how to these terrorists justify killing innocents and calling them collateral damage.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,065,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Your running a circle around the question. Absolutely the terrorists thought they were doing Allah's will and that they would go to paradise.

But my question has always been how to these terrorists justify killing innocents and calling them collateral damage.
the mind of a terrorist, especially a religious terrorist is difficult to comprehend as they seem to be doing the very things they oppose.

Some of them were/are trained from a very young age to be terrorists. Some of the Madrassa established in Afghanistan were like this. They are very similar to the training of the WW2 Kamikaze pilots.

Sort of a paradox, corrupted old men who would never face a battle themselves training young men to kill and die for them, thinking they were pious martyrs dieing in obedience to God(swt)..Youth is very susceptible to idealism and a desire to do great things. Yes some corrupt leaders did use Islam as a tool. Some are still doing it. We who try to show other paths are often seen as cowards by the impulsiveness of youth they do not want to hear us say: sometimes it takes more courage to live, than to die.

I see education as being the main part of the solution. but, it is a very slow process, Probably the only solution that will work, everything else has failed.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:55 PM
 
912 posts, read 826,785 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Your running a circle around the question. Absolutely the terrorists thought they were doing Allah's will and that they would go to paradise.

But my question has always been how to these terrorists justify killing innocents and calling them collateral damage.
My opinion is this......

1) Those terrorists could care less about allah , or life for that matter
2) Had they not followed through, they knew , just like we know they would have been hunted down tortured and killed ...Threats to family members as well.
3) They were all seen in topless bars and all that goes with it while in training. I'm tired of being fooled on this.
4) Every terrorist item in Islam is driven by conform or pay the consequences. If a muslim disobeys a group with these designs and plans....does he live?
of course not... ... you think they were saying there Islam chants or....hanging out in the strip club?...and why not they were on the way to see Allah shortly....its all threat fear...overall they prob did it in opinion to save their families from being tortured . We see what we see....people buried up to waste and stoned to death....old ladies whipped for carrying a young guys groceries....theres no end...Now imagine living under these situations and the AMOUNT we do NOT hear about..would fear & threat be a part of existence from an early age in these lands....? It would be everything.

Last edited by Blue Hue; 12-12-2011 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:26 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,379,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeinab View Post
peace be upon you
“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.” (Quran 60:8)
The Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children and he would advise them: “...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.” And he also said: “Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.

Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire
He once listed murder as the second of the major sins and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, “The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed
If this were so attacks on Mecca would never occur
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