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Old 12-18-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Wow I read your story, it's pretty amazing. You don't often hear of Christian to Agnostic to Muslim testimonies. I guess different holy books can inspire different people. Doctrinally was there anything in Islam that you found more compelling than Christianity? Did you find the voice of God more authentic in the Qu'ran than the Bible?
I find much of the OT to be the actual word of God(swt) although I feel parts of it may have been changed through translation and copy errors. I do not find any of the NT to be the actual dictation from God(swt) it is at best the opinions of various authors. I find the Qur'an to be tha actual words of Allaah(swt) as dictated to Muhammad(PBUH).

The doctrine I find most appealing in Islam is the encouragement to question all things and to learn to take full responsibility for what we believe or don't believe. Islam is not a religion of Dogma or doctrine. It is not an organization. In simple terms Islam is to submit to Allaah(swt) and not be chained to desires and temptations.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:00 PM
 
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Muslim did not worship muhammad, muslim pray to allah to give muhammad the highest throne in heaven that belong to Christ the Savior..... this always misunderstood as worshiping muhammad...
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:13 PM
 
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Muhammad was uncertain about his own salvation from God.... So, according to the Quran, Allah and his angels pray for Muhammad and on the basis command all believer to do the same. This is also always misunderstood as worshiping muhammad....
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I find much of the OT to be the actual word of God(swt) although I feel parts of it may have been changed through translation and copy errors.
Do you believe the first sentence in Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers is true?
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Do you believe the first sentence in Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers is true?
Not in the literal sense of how it is usually written in English--"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying"


I Believe God spoke to Moses, but through an Angel not in person.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not in the literal sense of how it is usually written in English--"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying"

I Believe God spoke to Moses, but through an Angel not in person.
Here is the New International Bible version:

The Lord said to Moses, “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites."

Do you believe that your god wanted the Israelites to "take vengance on the Midianites"?
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Here is the New International Bible version:

The Lord said to Moses, “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites."

Do you believe that your god wanted the Israelites to "take vengance on the Midianites"?
I will have to read it all in context, some immediate questions come to mind.

What is meant by vengeance?

Is it advocating violence?

What act or acts is the vengeance directed to?

I'll come back with my reply after I read it in context.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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I re-read it several time. While it is possible God(swt) did say those words, it seems to be incomplete. Just my opinion but it seems something was left out. No where does it say what the vengeance is for nor does it explain any limits. As read it calls for the killing of innocents and non-combatants. As it stands I do not accept it as being completely true, but accept it may contain some truth.

The passage contradicts the Qur'an's forbidding the harming of Innocents. I can only assume this passage is not the word of God(swt) or part of it has been lost.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I re-read it several time. While it is possible God(swt) did say those words, it seems to be incomplete. Just my opinion but it seems something was left out. No where does it say what the vengeance is for nor does it explain any limits. As read it calls for the killing of innocents and non-combatants. As it stands I do not accept it as being completely true, but accept it may contain some truth.

The passage contradicts the Qur'an's forbidding the harming of Innocents. I can only assume this passage is not the word of God(swt) or part of it has been lost.
That is a very good analysis, Woodrow, and it makes sense to me.

However, when I asked Jews about this question, I got a VERY different response. This was my post:

Originally Posted by hiker45
Ok Flipflop, you said you believe that the first sentence in Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers is true.

Do you believe the description of the atrocities committed by the Jews as described in Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers is correct?

Do you think your god approved what the Jews did?

This is how Flipflop responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
OK, the short answer is yes to both of your questions. Of course, over the history, a yes without any context was liable to get the Jew killed. It's really beyond the scope of this forum to give you an answer you might understand.
This is why I like to ask very simple, specific questions. I can find out exactly what people think. This discussion shows me that you (as a Muslim) and Flipflop (as a Jew) have VERY different ideas about how your god wants you to behave.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
That is a very good analysis, Woodrow, and it makes sense to me.

However, when I asked Jews about this question, I got a VERY different response. This was my post:

Originally Posted by hiker45
Ok Flipflop, you said you believe that the first sentence in Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers is true.

Do you believe the description of the atrocities committed by the Jews as described in Chapter 31 of the Book of Numbers is correct?

Do you think your god approved what the Jews did?

This is how Flipflop responded:



This is why I like to ask very simple, specific questions. I can find out exactly what people think. This discussion shows me that you (as a Muslim) and Flipflop (as a Jew) have VERY different ideas about how your god wants you to behave.
If Flipflop and I agreed on everything we would both be the same faith. He has the right to believe as he does and I am certain he believes with sincerity. But, he and I do not always see things the same. Which does not seem to bother either of us.

I believe you will get an even different view from a Christian, possibly even different views from different denominations of Christianity.
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