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Old 12-21-2011, 03:51 PM
 
3,966 posts, read 3,349,384 times
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For all you athiests, I (as a representative Yid) would tell you this; live a good life. Keep your nose clean. Be kind to others. Believe in G-d? Optional.
Another way to say this is: Jews believe in deed, not creed.

Ponder that statement, in case you've never heard it before. There 's a religion, I'm told, that says if you live a terrible life, and then the moment before you die you accept "he who must not be named" as your lord and personal savior, then you're all set in the world to come. Jews for sure do not believe that. Our belief is that when you die, you must face "the prosecuter" to defend the sum of your life's actions. Nobody truly knows what the "weighting system" looks like, so do your best in this world, and then your place in the next one will be determined by how successful you were vs. the potential you were given.

For most of you athiests, you likely were born with very little potnetial. So do some good things in your life (like follow the 7 Noahide laws), and you're probably all set. For a Torah Observant Jew, well I was born with 613 commandments to follow, so I gotta work really hard to have a shot at a good seat in the afterlife. But that's cool with me - it's what I signed up for, and I'm not looking for any shortcuts.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:12 PM
 
949 posts, read 880,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Another way to say this is: Jews believe in deed, not creed.

Ponder that statement, in case you've never heard it before. There 's a religion, I'm told, that says if you live a terrible life, and then the moment before you die you accept "he who must not be named" as your lord and personal savior, then you're all set in the world to come. Jews for sure do not believe that. Our belief is that when you die, you must face "the prosecuter" to defend the sum of your life's actions. Nobody truly knows what the "weighting system" looks like, so do your best in this world, and then your place in the next one will be determined by how successful you were vs. the potential you were given.

For most of you athiests, you likely were born with very little potnetial. So do some good things in your life (like follow the 7 Noahide laws), and you're probably all set. For a Torah Observant Jew, well I was born with 613 commandments to follow, so I gotta work really hard to have a shot at a good seat in the afterlife. But that's cool with me - it's what I signed up for, and I'm not looking for any shortcuts.
Funny...but Abraham, the Father of the Jews, was declared righteous for his belief--not because of what he did. He was called the Father of the Faithful (Jew and Gentile alike) not because of his deeds...but because of his creed.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,969 times
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Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post


What is there to debate when the text speaks of a canopy? We know it is not a canopy but to the desert dwellers who knew/know no different w/o the aid of telescopes it sure looked like a dome/canopy. Flat earthers tend to think that way.
first of all the verse said that God made the heavens as a canopy
you can't ignore " as "

secondly , i think that canopy can cover spherical shapes as well , so i realy can't recognise the real problem with using "canopy" in the translation

And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

from my point of view the Quran makes it quite clear that the earth's sky (atmosphere) acts as a well protected covering for us humans

With the discoveries of modern day science, we are now able to verify the above claims, of how the earth's atmosphere does protect us humans, and how the earth's atmosphere is indeed like a protected roof over our heads.

Quote:
Then you have texts claiming mo split the moon and we have seen posts here of muslims claiming this as fact and you want to tell us this is science?
no i didn't said that splitting the moon is science
but i believe that moon was splitted as a miracle for mohammed (pbuh) , and science may prove it ,

and i have no problem with Nasa
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:25 PM
 
40,175 posts, read 26,797,761 times
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Originally Posted by TheoGeek View Post
Funny...but Abraham, the Father of the Jews, was declared righteous for his belief--not because of what he did. He was called the Father of the Faithful (Jew and Gentile alike) not because of his deeds...but because of his creed.
Actually, Abraham was the first to exhibit the complete self-control of his selfish needs to suppress them in obedience to a higher power. It is his ability for self-control that blessed all his descendants. Our species had achieved the necessary ability to learn the kind of self-control that would eventually produce Jesus.
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,913 posts, read 31,804,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Another way to say this is: Jews believe in deed, not creed.

Ponder that statement, in case you've never heard it before. There 's a religion, I'm told, that says if you live a terrible life, and then the moment before you die you accept "he who must not be named" as your lord and personal savior, then you're all set in the world to come. Jews for sure do not believe that. Our belief is that when you die, you must face "the prosecuter" to defend the sum of your life's actions. Nobody truly knows what the "weighting system" looks like, so do your best in this world, and then your place in the next one will be determined by how successful you were vs. the potential you were given.

For most of you athiests, you likely were born with very little potnetial. So do some good things in your life (like follow the 7 Noahide laws), and you're probably all set. For a Torah Observant Jew, well I was born with 613 commandments to follow, so I gotta work really hard to have a shot at a good seat in the afterlife. But that's cool with me - it's what I signed up for, and I'm not looking for any shortcuts.
Oh, you self righteous believers of mythology....You all think you are so much better than the guy who has a different god belief than you do, and what you think of atheists (very little potnetial (sic) is telling, because deep down I think you know that us atheists are the ones who have it right... I find it so entertaining to watch you people squabble over who's "let's pretend" story is right...Keep up the good work.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:25 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGeek View Post
So did he make us out of a drop of blood or clay?
23:12,14
And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth).
Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman).

Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allah, the Best of creators.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:33 AM
 
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If Moslems can convince atheists of the existence of God, good for them. It's an important first step toward salvation.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:40 AM
 
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hello thanks for you news
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:52 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,969 times
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Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
elwil, he said, in effect, that the Qu'Ran makes the skies, the heavens (what we see at night; tiny pin-pricks of intense light) to be pinholes in a cosmic black curtain, literally hung there by God or His angels.

(I wonder how they interpreted shooting stars? Self-healing rips in that cosmic fabric? Hmm...)



We now know quite a bit more, having placed men as far away as the moon, and launched the Voyager and Mars Rover spacecraft, and all the other deep space explorer satellites. Plus telescopes and simple logical observation from here on earth.

As a result man knows quite a bit more than the 7th century non-scientific observers and authors of your Qu'Ran did. Of course they had no strong base of knowledge and understanding of such things, so they had to pretty much make it up. We now know they were wrong. Completely wrong.

Science and it's understandings are a cumulative thing, where one new fact opens a doorway to further explorations and therefore further understandings. In this way, it progresses, now at a rapid and accelerating pace, unveiling things that would otherwise seem unfathomable (not able to be understood by anyone), where in fact, specialist scientists have a deep understanding of many areas of knowledge that scientifically uneducated religious folks are simply in awe of, and therefore they assume it's Got to be God, or Allah.

(Note regarding the supposed major scientific abilities of ancient Muslims: old time science was, by comparison to today's methods and tools, simplistic child's play, akin to a drawing of a candle and a nearby pinhole, and an inverted image of the candle projected on a screen.

Image Detail for - http://seriousaboutcamo.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345175ae69e20133ee07fbcb970b-800wi

This was what my mother, in Grade 10 science class, did as a "science project", back in about 1935. Woo-Hoo, huh? Now, kids go visit a linear accelerator or peer down an electron microscope, or grow bacteria on petri dishes in the lab, and then experiment with the effects of different antibiotics on those evolved species of bacteria, and can explain to you and I just how it all works! In fact, they know significantly more "stuff" than a practicing medical doctor did in the 7th century! So much for Islams/ much-vaunted "scientific abilities!")

What is hard to fathom in today's modern world is that so many religious folks won't (can't?) accept that they do not understand much of the technical world, and they know they don't have the specific education, experience or interaction with other professionals to even begin to argue their case, and yet...

...they steadfastly continue to claim their version, with dragons, devils, angels and a man sitting up on a cloud, are all rational and logical, and also factual, entities.

How odd, huh?

i'm in hurry now rifleman , and i want to reread your post again before replying

may be in another time this day
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:59 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,701 posts, read 74,699,564 times
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re the quran, unfortunately chapter 9:5 (pg 213) called for muslims to kills jews and christians
"then kill the ones who are polytheists, wherever you find them"
God never said this friend. not something anybody should defend.
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