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Old 01-15-2012, 10:52 PM
Status: "I'm back--My silly human fell asleep" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
10,670 posts, read 4,207,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
I see. Then please explain why the Islam Q&A site, which you recommend to others and link to from your own website, openly promotes violent jihad (apologies for length, see link for full context):

-------------------
While I do have iton my website, I do not agree with it. However, it is the correct Salafi view. Each person has the right to investigate all views and do their best to verify the Accuracy and truth of each of them.

I personally follow the Hanafi Madhab and the Fiqh-ul-Sunnah. It stresses personal responsibility the most.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:04 PM
Status: "I'm back--My silly human fell asleep" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
10,670 posts, read 4,207,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Wood is the least typical Muslim on the world stage, Western . . . It is the radical Islamists who have the funding and the global reach to be of concern to civilized society. Apologists like Wood seem to have their head in the sand or are naive' about real politik.

You should meet our Sufi Segment. They make me look like a war monger. I started off as Sufi and would still be if it were not for the fact they venerate and pray to Saints. They are considered to be Muslim, but most of us feel they are committing a sin by their praying to Saints. the Hanafi are the Accepted Madhab of the Sunni that comes closest to the Sufi, which is why I am comfortable with it.

Most Sufi in the USA are in the medical field. The Sufi have a long history of being in the humanities and historically are best known for their poetry and art work.

They are typically ultra pacifists and will not fight even in self defense.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:16 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,258 posts, read 2,406,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While I do have it on my website, I do not agree with it.
Sounds like you would not be affected, then, by these sensible policy proposals.

But the question remains: if you do not believe that violent jihad against infidels is justified "so that the religion would be all for Allah", then why do you promote this view by recommending the Islam Q&A site?

Anyway, thanks for challenging me to look this stuff up again. Now I know what my Muslim neighbors at the Chico Islamic Center have been studying lately.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:24 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,258 posts, read 2,406,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Apologists like Wood seem to have their head in the sand or are naive' about real politik.
Woodrow LI seems both intelligent and informed. I don't think we can chalk his views up to naivete. He's essentially an Episcopalian who's Muslim for the shock value. Trouble is, he's (inadvertantly? one hopes!) promoting the violence of Jihad and the barbarism of Sharia, both in actual deed and by the ambiguity of his position.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Status: "I'm back--My silly human fell asleep" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
10,670 posts, read 4,207,685 times
Reputation: 4192
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Sounds like you would not be affected, then, by these sensible policy proposals.

But the question remains: if you do not believe that violent jihad against infidels is justified "so that the religion would be all for Allah", then why do you promote this view by recommending the Islam Q&A site?

Anyway, thanks for challenging me to look this stuff up again. Now I know what my Muslim neighbors at the Chico Islamic Center have been studying lately.
I do not have the right to impose my views as Tafsir. I have my opinions but out of self responsibility every Muslim needs to investigate every Madhab before accepting one. While Salafi are not accepted as legitimate by Sunni, it is a fast growing madhab and as such each Muslim should investigate it. A Muslim has to make his own choices and the choices must be made of their own free will and with knowledge. I do not try to suppress any view, but I am vocal about expressing my view and why I accept it.

As for violent Jihad for any reason, there may be times it is justified and necessary. So far my only experience with it was when I was a Christian and fighting for democracy in Viet Nam.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:25 AM
Status: "I'm back--My silly human fell asleep" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
10,670 posts, read 4,207,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Sounds like you would not be affected, then, by these sensible policy proposals.

.
Interesting proposals. almost as good as the death threats I got when I attempted to build a Mosque. Nice sweet god fearing Christians, did their best to run us out of ND. My wife is Native American and her family has been here long before the wasicu invaded the Lakotah Nation. Killed my 5 best breeding horses, Stole 17 I had planned to sell for this years income. But I know it was the work of a small handful of people that do not represent Christianity and I do not blame Christians for the Hell we have lived through in the past year. Now to look at these nice fair proposals:

Quote:
1. Halt Muslim immigration. This policy should be specifically directed at the immigration of Muslims, from any nation, and not simply at immigration from Muslim states or from states known for their Islamic extremism. (According to the Council on American-Islamic Relations there are an estimated 7 million Muslims in this country, along with almost 2,000 mosques and Islamic centers, forming what amounts to an impenetrable Islamic sub-culture on American soil.)
2. Halt the issuance of all student, religious and immigrant visas to Muslims, and revoke those presently in effect. (Of the 48 Islamic terrorists apprehended between 1993 and 2001, only 12 were in the country illegally.)
3. Codify Islamic jihad and sharia as hostile, foreign, political ideologies. This might take the form of a Jihad-sedition law, as once proposed by our own Paul Cella (but incorporating sharia as well), establishing that the preaching of jihad and sharia is tantamount to advocacy of “overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States”.


a. Require an oath renouncing jihad and sharia from all resident alien Muslims as a condition for remaining in the United States. b. Require an oath renouncing jihad and sharia from all government employees, including military personnel.
c. Monitor all mosques and Islamic schools for promulgation or advocacy of jihad and sharia.
d. Forbid the public advocacy of jihad and sharia in print and on radio, television, and the web.



4. Require all Islamic literature, books and websites originating in the United States to be communicated in English. The use of Arabic will not be forbidden, but requiring English translations will make public advocacy of jihad and sharia more difficult to hide. 5. Revoke the passes of Muslim prison chaplains and halt all religious accommodations for incarcerated Muslims.
6. Cease all religious accommodations, including the provision of military chaplains, for Muslims serving in the armed forces.
7. Remove all Muslim accommodations in government agencies, offices, and facilities (foot basins, prayer rugs, Ramadan observance, etc.).
8. Notify all businesses, private institutions, schools and local agencies that anti-discrimination laws do not require accommodating the religious practices of Muslim employees, customers, associates or volunteers.
9. Forbid all federal funding of Islamic organizations and charities.
10. Encourage states with Muslim enclaves to enforce their ban on first-cousin marriage, or to enact such a ban, and further to ban all sexual relations between first cousins. (Only 24 states ban first-cousin marriages presently. This is a powerful tradition for many Islamic cultures.)
the only result of that would be potential Terrorists would deny being Muslim. If a person is going to be a terrorist or a threat to the USA do you really think they would be honest about anything. The Arabic ban is almost meaningless, very few Muslims speak Arabic as a conversational language.



You do realize number 10 would end Marriages in a few States.


In spite of all fears about us, an American Christian still stands a greater risk of being killed by an American Christian than any other group.

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 01-16-2012 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:43 AM
 
706 posts, read 629,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Woodrow LI seems both intelligent and informed. I don't think we can chalk his views up to naivete. He's essentially an Episcopalian who's Muslim for the shock value.
muslim for the shock value? maybe he's muslim because he doesn't believe in the Trinity.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:09 AM
 
Location: The Other California
4,258 posts, read 2,406,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55degrees View Post
muslim for the shock value? maybe he's muslim because he doesn't believe in the Trinity.
Could be. But I don't think that's much of a problem for Episcopalians anymore.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:13 AM
Status: "I'm back--My silly human fell asleep" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
10,670 posts, read 4,207,685 times
Reputation: 4192
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55degrees View Post
muslim for the shock value? maybe he's muslim because he doesn't believe in the Trinity.
That is one of the reasons. Anyone who decides to be Muslim in the USA had best do so because they sincerely believe the Qur'an. It is not an easy road to follow. You immediately become an outcast, become a suspect for any crime within a Hundred miles, learn to face scorn with self respect, get more hate mail than junk mail and of course the occasional physical threats.

Through my own searching and of my own free will without coercian or influence from any Human, I am fully convinced the Qur'an is the actual word of God(swt) and Muhammad(PBUH) is the final Prophet. I can not deny being Muslim any more than I can deny the reality of the ground I walk upon.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:44 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,414 posts, read 3,616,765 times
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You know it is pretty sad you have this intolerance in the US. Back here in SA there are many Muslim business centres and are supported by CINO's (christian in name only) and usually do not do you in.

Example. I bought a microwave from one of them and when we got home half the innards were missing. The shop is in a town about 30km from where I stay. They had no other stock and offered me a more expensive one as a replacement and delivered/collected at their own cost. I have been doing business on and off with the owner since the 80's.

Another instance in the 80's, I had via my FIL procured electrical work in his town 1000km away. I went to a muslim electrical dealer and purchased $4000 of goods and gave him a check which if deposited would bounce, this was guarantee I would come back and pay him cash which I did. He trusted me based on my honest appearance and we also have done business on and off for a long time and became friends and even visited in the days when races were still segregated here.

Now I could tell you all about xians who have screwed me but I have never had a muslim businessman do me in NOT ONCE.

Perhaps it is the stereotyping they are confronted with that makes them honest OR in reality, they have better morals than xians.

IMO, the US always needs a bogeyman, you had the Japanese, the Russians, and now teh ebul muslims. Seems US xians have and inherent need to hate something that unites them.

Pretty sad but then (based on what I read here and other fora) most US folk never leave their state let alone their beloved country.

I am not a fan of islam either but really it is time some folk got over themselves.
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