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Old 03-26-2008, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,273,104 times
Reputation: 4279

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Some people can use anything to justify murder, like I said, the Bible does not support murder. How many times do I have to say this. The Islamic faith does support murder when it comes to spreading the faith by the sword. And that murder is supported by their (religious text).
That's your interpretation of it. That's the problem, Campbell. You choose to interpret the Koran as one that promotes violence because it supports your viewpoint. It then allows you to throw about your own faith as the "right" one. You're really not doing anything differently than the suicide bomber is with the exception of strapping a bomb to your chest. You're interpreting the Koran as one that exudes and promotes violence for your own cause. Kind of ironic isn't it???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Today Christian follow the teaching of Christ, the Islamics are still stuck in Old Testament thinking.
Correction. MANY of today's Christian's follow the teachings of Christ. NOT ALL! That's why I brought up the Westboro Baptist Church, abortion clinic bombers, and historical Christian acts such as the Inquisition. I could go onwards with slavery (with which Jesus never actually condoned) but that's not the overall point. The point is that just as you don't consider them Christians (because they don't act like "true" Christians) you're pulling a bait and switch by saying that Muslims the world around are worshipping a violent religion. Christianity has not much less of a violent history than Islam. As you said, people will find any and every excuse to commit atrocities. The world is littered with graves of people who died fighting under the impression that they were doing God's work. That includes Christians as well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
And it appears the only thing you can come up with is an abortion clinic bomber who claimed to be Christian.
I believe I cited more than that. I brought up abortion clinic bomber's because there's an interesting parallel between explosive devices amongst religions. That's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Yet you try to put that on a par with the 10s of thousands who are being kill all over the earth by Islamics daily.
Is that any better than the tens of thousands who die in Africa each year under the guise of the Catholic (CHRISTIAN!) condemning of condom usage??? Oh wait, as long as it's a subtle genocide it's ok, right?? Either that or we are just going to throw Catholics out the windows as Christians, right? And that will only serve to further my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
And again you did not read my post, because I said (most Muslims are peaceful people).
Then why the persistent, nagging need to label Islam as a religion of violence??? Are you renegging on me Campbell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
I am directing my point to the many thousands that are not. I'm not ignorant of the fact that many Muslims around the world are killing Christians at an alarming rate, and feel justified in doing so.
That's not what you said. You said that Islam preaches violence. That's pretty ALL-ENCOMPASSING, Campbell. There are many who are not peaceful. It's a sad thing. It really is. Yet, for a religion that has close to or over a billion worshippers, encompassing even 100,000 of them barely scratches the surface of overall Islam. That's what I find demeaning about your self-exorbitant ignorance to anything but your own faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
We don't see this kind of activity by Christians. We don't see Christians burning down Muslims Mosques, nor do we see Christian blowing themselves up to kill Muslims, we don't see Christians setting Muslims on fire, or cutting off their heads. We don't hear Christians calling for death because someone has chosen he nolonger cares to be a Christian.
You're right. In this day and age we have not had much of that. But, that's one of the valuable lessons that history teaches us. It not only teaches us about what wrongs we can learn from, but also how we can progress. It still doesn't mean that Christianity has had anything less than a violent past. It also doesn't mean that Christianity is a religion of inherent violence and platitudes of warfare. You're trying to take this current "time slice" of Christianity and paint it against the current "time slice" of Islam. You're saying that because right now, at this very second, Christianity is painted in a less violent picture that it represents all of Christianity past, present, and future which is not the case. Likewise, there have been times in Islam's past where war was not ever-present and it should also be recognized as such and not painted in one particular "time slice" as you are trying to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
You really seem to have a real disconnect when it comes to what is happening in the world today.
I have the disconnect? Ok...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Christians are active in the work to help the down and outs. Their activities are far more constructive, and often it is Christians who go to areas where the Muslims are in need, especially because of recent disasters that have struck their homes.
Yes, many Christians do. But, you also have to recognize that many Christians live in rather "well to do" countries that can also provide for this. Rarely do you see Guatemalen Christians going to other countries to help out because many can't afford it in the first place. Likewise, many Muslim countries, contrary to popular belief, are not very rich. Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, and a few others have the money and it is one of the pillars of Islam to help the needy. The rest of the countries like Syria, Afghanistan, etc... who do not have the vast wealth comparable to western Christian countries and some of the richer Middle Eastern countries struggle with their own shortcomings. My point is that I feel it is part of humanity to help out when given the opportunity and luxuries of doing so, not just any particular religions. Let's also not forget that while you paint the loving charities of Christianity, that there's a whole continent of AIDS in Africa that are being told by none other than these "charitable" Christian organizations not to use condoms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
And they do this even when Muslims threaten them. My main point is, that if their religious text was from God, why does it lend itself to so much violence in the world? Why does it support the spreading the faith by the sword? And you really can't fault those in their faith who are doing the killing, because it is their religious text that is giving them the the right to pratice such violence.

Why did the Old Testament God do the same thing? Why was God such a brutal, maniacal, dictator in the Old Testament? The Christian God has allegedly murdered far more people than the Islamic one to my knowledge. Seems like you're trying to dissect things into convenient "time slices" again. I think you sincerely need to look at the broader, overall encompassing picture of the history of religion and violence. Now, I'm not saying that because you're a Christian that you're prone to violent acts. That would be like you saying because someone is a Muslim that they are... Oh wait.... You did imply that... No, what I'm getting at here is that you're trying to paint an "Us vs. Them" picture. Do you not understand that that is part of the ENTIRE problem in this world. This is NOT an Us vs. Them war. The only way this entire thing is going to be settled is by managing culpable relations with one another without accusing one side or the other of having the more violent religion. There's a reason why the Muslims feel this is a holy war and it's in part because they view America as a Christian nation attacking the nation of Islam and supporting Israel.

The last thing we really need is to project a sense of hatred, bigotry, or ignorance towards their religion. If anything, we need to come to a culpable and amicable genuine attempt at understanding (not believing but understanding) of their faith without trying to paint a picture of them as an entirely hostile people. Are there going to be dissidents and people who object? Absolutely. But that goes on both sides and you've shown nothing more than an augmented willingness to try and misunderstand them as a hostile "nation" of religious warriors. That's not going to get us anywhere, Campbell. That's only going to make it worse. I don't know... I'm not a Christian, but perhaps you should take it as how Jesus might. Unless, of course, Jesus would have advocated such a thing?????
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:42 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 15,127,911 times
Reputation: 8348
Default When Muslims "rule" the world... ?

I'm both male and hetero. No worries here.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,361,885 times
Reputation: 4885
Even jesus had faults...how come we now see him as perfect? Even if he was a half god, he would have human traits and therefor could not have been perfect. So to be like jesus christ, is to not be perfect...
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:53 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Jesus is and always will be a Jew, so he certainly was not Christian.
The fact that most Jews do not accept Jesus as Christ does not make Jesus a non-Jew, nor does it make him Christian.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:01 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 15,127,911 times
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Quote:
MaggieZ;3266491]Even jesus had faults...
What were some of them?
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:42 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by doc1
Quote:
What were some of them?
Quote:
Matthew 26,39
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
By asking God to pass him this cup Jesus admitted to be afraid, so he essentially admitted to be a coward. Being afraid is fearing for your mortality, which only is human.
Many Christians see humanity as a sin, since they believe that people are born sinful (thus human).
I do not consider fearing for your life a sin, I would only think of it as logical, but you should not let fear lead your life.
When you allow to let fear lead you, you'll only be travelling on the path of (self)destruction.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:50 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 15,127,911 times
Reputation: 8348
Quote:
Tricky D;3266774]By asking God to pass him this cup Jesus admitted to be afraid,
Agree


Quote:
[so he essentially admitted to be a coward.
Don't agree. Being a coward is not having courage. In spite of His fear He still said to His Father "Your will..."
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,361,885 times
Reputation: 4885
doc1, He was born from a woman, a human, he had human traits -50 % of him was human going by that.. He wouldn't have been able to die, had he been perfect.....I think you should prove he was perfect rather than me prove he wasn't ...I don't believe in god so to me, if he even lived, he was a 100% human..
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Sheffield, England
2,639 posts, read 6,030,856 times
Reputation: 3257
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Open your heart to what is possible, for with God all things are possible.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal to God.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Cr 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. 1Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

godspeed,

freedom
If we can be perfect through our own doings then why did Jesus bother dying for everyone's sins then?
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,361,885 times
Reputation: 4885
I think we can THINK we're perfect, we're not though! No one ever can be or was...
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