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Old 03-28-2008, 09:49 AM
 
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How did this become a debate on Christianity?

I think the question was about Muslims 'ruling' the world.
I don't believe that there can be any argument that there are Imams who do in fact preach that it is every Muslims responsibility to 'take over the world'. And of course there are many Musllims who follow these Imams and believe ardently that Muslims should and will take over the world.
The question isn't whether Christ was a coward or divine...... the question should be who wants to live under Sharia Law?
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:49 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,886,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by doc1By asking God to pass him this cup Jesus admitted to be afraid, so he essentially admitted to be a coward. Being afraid is fearing for your mortality, which only is human.
Many Christians see humanity as a sin, since they believe that people are born sinful (thus human).
I do not consider fearing for your life a sin, I would only think of it as logical, but you should not let fear lead your life.
When you allow to let fear lead you, you'll only be travelling on the path of (self)destruction.
Fearing the (pain) of death by evil men is not a sin? And if Jesus was a coward, He never would of gone through with it.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:09 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by freedom
Quote:
I see Jesus as the Son of God, not God the Father, or God almighty. He became one with God as we can become One with God.
So Jesus only become spiritually one with God?
If so I call this this spirituality love and I sure do believe that only love can be the path to God.
And all the people I mentioned walked the same path as Jesus and are no more or less than Jesus.

Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
The question isn't whether Christ was a coward or divine...... the question should be who wants to live under Sharia Law?
If Christ was a coward than Jesus was human and if Christ is devine he could not have been human.
What living under Sharia Law is for Muslim is obeying Jesus to Christians.

Originally Posted by juj
Quote:
A: Mostly incorrect. What we do AND our faith defines you and I.
I disagree.
Only my actions define who I am, what I believe is actually irrelevant.
Most of the time people are not actually aware why they do the things they do, they are only able to rationalize why they have done whatever they did (which might not be true).

Quote:
We as Christians and Jews believe in tolerance, but I am afraid that the Muslim community does not necessarily agree.
Do you know all the Christians and all the Jews?
Do you know all the Muslim?
The only one we can truly speak for is ourselves.

Quote:
To them we are all born Muslim and if we switch to their religion, we re-vert to Islam, not convert.
So?
All Christians believe that every human is created by God.
And all the Jews believe that they are the chosen people of God.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:10 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,886,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by jujYou mean we should kill all the Islam instead of turn the other cheek?
Are you implying that we should ignore Jesus and listen to you?
Well Tricky, there is another way of escape for us America's, God is going to remove His church before the Islamics come. But I have to tell you, the Bible tells us that all of the America's cities will burn, and America,s end will come in one hours time. And the prophecy states that our great voice will be silenced. And the nations will nolonger stream to our nation. As a Christian, I see what is going to happen to our nation. And I have not closed my eyes to this the coming storm.

ISLAM WILL TAKE OVER EUROPE
"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe" "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe without swords, without guns, without conquest. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it ino a Muslim continent within a few decades."

Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi

The Muslims are telling you what their plans are, is anyone listening.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:17 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Campbell34
Quote:
As a Christian, I see what is going to happen to our nation.
Which nation?
The American's or the Christian's?

BTW I do not believe in prophecies, they tend to blind people from actual reality; written prophecies often become self-fulfilling 'prophecies' simply because people want them to become reality.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
That's your interpretation of it. That's the problem, Campbell. You choose to interpret the Koran as one that promotes violence because it supports your viewpoint. It then allows you to throw about your own faith as the "right" one. You're really not doing anything differently than the suicide bomber is with the exception of strapping a bomb to your chest. You're interpreting the Koran as one that exudes and promotes violence for your own cause. Kind of ironic isn't it???



Correction. MANY of today's Christian's follow the teachings of Christ. NOT ALL! That's why I brought up the Westboro Baptist Church, abortion clinic bombers, and historical Christian acts such as the Inquisition. I could go onwards with slavery (with which Jesus never actually condoned) but that's not the overall point. The point is that just as you don't consider them Christians (because they don't act like "true" Christians) you're pulling a bait and switch by saying that Muslims the world around are worshipping a violent religion. Christianity has not much less of a violent history than Islam. As you said, people will find any and every excuse to commit atrocities. The world is littered with graves of people who died fighting under the impression that they were doing God's work. That includes Christians as well!



I believe I cited more than that. I brought up abortion clinic bomber's because there's an interesting parallel between explosive devices amongst religions. That's all.



Is that any better than the tens of thousands who die in Africa each year under the guise of the Catholic (CHRISTIAN!) condemning of condom usage??? Oh wait, as long as it's a subtle genocide it's ok, right?? Either that or we are just going to throw Catholics out the windows as Christians, right? And that will only serve to further my point.



Then why the persistent, nagging need to label Islam as a religion of violence??? Are you renegging on me Campbell?



That's not what you said. You said that Islam preaches violence. That's pretty ALL-ENCOMPASSING, Campbell. There are many who are not peaceful. It's a sad thing. It really is. Yet, for a religion that has close to or over a billion worshippers, encompassing even 100,000 of them barely scratches the surface of overall Islam. That's what I find demeaning about your self-exorbitant ignorance to anything but your own faith.



You're right. In this day and age we have not had much of that. But, that's one of the valuable lessons that history teaches us. It not only teaches us about what wrongs we can learn from, but also how we can progress. It still doesn't mean that Christianity has had anything less than a violent past. It also doesn't mean that Christianity is a religion of inherent violence and platitudes of warfare. You're trying to take this current "time slice" of Christianity and paint it against the current "time slice" of Islam. You're saying that because right now, at this very second, Christianity is painted in a less violent picture that it represents all of Christianity past, present, and future which is not the case. Likewise, there have been times in Islam's past where war was not ever-present and it should also be recognized as such and not painted in one particular "time slice" as you are trying to do.



I have the disconnect? Ok...



Yes, many Christians do. But, you also have to recognize that many Christians live in rather "well to do" countries that can also provide for this. Rarely do you see Guatemalen Christians going to other countries to help out because many can't afford it in the first place. Likewise, many Muslim countries, contrary to popular belief, are not very rich. Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, and a few others have the money and it is one of the pillars of Islam to help the needy. The rest of the countries like Syria, Afghanistan, etc... who do not have the vast wealth comparable to western Christian countries and some of the richer Middle Eastern countries struggle with their own shortcomings. My point is that I feel it is part of humanity to help out when given the opportunity and luxuries of doing so, not just any particular religions. Let's also not forget that while you paint the loving charities of Christianity, that there's a whole continent of AIDS in Africa that are being told by none other than these "charitable" Christian organizations not to use condoms.




Why did the Old Testament God do the same thing? Why was God such a brutal, maniacal, dictator in the Old Testament? The Christian God has allegedly murdered far more people than the Islamic one to my knowledge. Seems like you're trying to dissect things into convenient "time slices" again. I think you sincerely need to look at the broader, overall encompassing picture of the history of religion and violence. Now, I'm not saying that because you're a Christian that you're prone to violent acts. That would be like you saying because someone is a Muslim that they are... Oh wait.... You did imply that... No, what I'm getting at here is that you're trying to paint an "Us vs. Them" picture. Do you not understand that that is part of the ENTIRE problem in this world. This is NOT an Us vs. Them war. The only way this entire thing is going to be settled is by managing culpable relations with one another without accusing one side or the other of having the more violent religion. There's a reason why the Muslims feel this is a holy war and it's in part because they view America as a Christian nation attacking the nation of Islam and supporting Israel.

The last thing we really need is to project a sense of hatred, bigotry, or ignorance towards their religion. If anything, we need to come to a culpable and amicable genuine attempt at understanding (not believing but understanding) of their faith without trying to paint a picture of them as an entirely hostile people. Are there going to be dissidents and people who object? Absolutely. But that goes on both sides and you've shown nothing more than an augmented willingness to try and misunderstand them as a hostile "nation" of religious warriors. That's not going to get us anywhere, Campbell. That's only going to make it worse. I don't know... I'm not a Christian, but perhaps you should take it as how Jesus might. Unless, of course, Jesus would have advocated such a thing?????
It's not an interpretation, (it's what's plainly stated in the Islamic religious text). And that is why so many of them feel justified in blowing themselves, and others up.

And if there are people who call themselves Christians and donot follow the teachings of Christ, then they are not Christians. Many of the more violent Muslims (are following their teachings.) You really need to check on what their religious text states. Even their founder was covered in the blood of the non converted. It's in their history. The only blood Jesus Christ was covered in was His own. It's not ignorance that makes me see what their doing in the name of Islam. They are burning churches down around the globe, they murder Christians for not converting to Islam, Islamic controled governments are calling for death for those who try to walk away from the Muslim faith.

You talk about the Pope and his stand on condem use, while mobs of Islamics are outright killing Christians in cold blood, burning down their homes, and churches.

Yes America supports Israel, and we do so because it is one of the only free nations in the Middle East. And if it were not for Israel, Islamic's would have another reason to hate us. These people have an agenda, and their governments have one to. Why are millions of Muslims streaming into the Western Nations?

"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe, there are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe without swords, without guns, without conquest. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades." Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi

I believe it's just a matter of time before the Muslims move against the Jews in Israel. It's their duty to do so according to their belief system. Yet I believe they will threaten America with war before that day comes. Given enought time, Muslims will control nukes, and unlike Russia that backed away from the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction, the Islamics will welcome it as a free ticket into heaven fighting the Great Satan. The Bible tells us that our nation America with all of her cities will burn, and her end will come in one hours time. All of this will happen during the time when Israel and Jerusalem will be at the center of the worlds attention. The last battle on earth will be for the control of Jerusalem. The Bible is telling you exactly what is going to happen in the last days. Is anyone out there listening.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
I believe it's just a matter of time before the Muslims move against the Jews in Israel. It's their duty to do so according to their belief system. Yet I believe they will threaten America with war before that day comes. Given enought time, Muslims will control nukes, and unlike Russia that backed away from the concept of Mutual Assured Destruction, the Islamics will welcome it as a free ticket into heaven fighting the Great Satan. The Bible tells us that our nation America with all of her cities will burn, and her end will come in one hours time. All of this will happen during the time when Israel and Jerusalem will be at the center of the worlds attention. The last battle on earth will be for the control of Jerusalem. The Bible is telling you exactly what is going to happen in the last days. Is anyone out there listening.
I think you just explained why Pres. Bush keeps saying that history will judge him favorably (mainly for attacking Iraq) - because he seems to believe all the stuff you just wrote.

Yes, I'm listening. I just don't believe what I'm hearing.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:32 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
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Who has watched the Wilders video and said to themselves, what a nice bunch of folks? I wish they could be my neighbors.

I'm sure all you none believers didn't even watch the video. Apparently Europe will have to fall to wake you folks up.

Last edited by juj; 03-28-2008 at 10:24 PM..
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,361,885 times
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Where does the Bible talk about America? Surely, the US of A wasn't even thought of in those days. That's like Nostradamus predicting about September 11th. It's all what you want it to be when you read those quatrains... I saw someone fold a dollar bill a certain way and it shows the twin towers..another prediction..
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:27 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
Where does the Bible talk about America? Surely, the US of A wasn't even thought of in those days. That's like Nostradamus predicting about September 11th. It's all what you want it to be when you read those quatrains... I saw someone fold a dollar bill a certain way and it shows the twin towers..another prediction..
Hey, I believe we should be aware of going on, but I don't buy the prophecy stuff either. That's all end of the world, rapture stuff, which Catholics don't believe. But I digress.
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