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Old 04-02-2008, 02:37 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,886,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by bobmulk You mean like the democratic Americans invaded the non-democratic nation Iraq?
By force?
Under false accusation?

How many Christians in America condemn the 'Christian' Americans for waging war on Iraq under false pretence?

Originally Posted by Campbell34I do not ignore anything, because I believe that you believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies, but this does not make it true.

Originally Posted by mrscox27I rather follow Jesus' philosophy of non-violent resistance instead of picking up the sword, or gun.
3.You can kill the messenger, but not the truth that violence only breeds more violence.
Like Jesus I simply believe that the pen is mightier than the sword.
1. So why is it that the New Testament has Jesus fulfilling all those prophecies?

2. And why is it that we have the Jews returning to Israel, and they have retaken Jerusalem, as the Old Testament stated they would?

3. And why is it that Jerusalems East Porch Gate is sealed and no one has been able to unseal it, as the Old Testament stated?

4. What makes what is true, untrue, according to you?
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:53 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Campbell34
Quote:
1. So why is it that the New Testament has Jesus fulfilling all those prophecies?

3. And why is it that Jerusalems East Porch Gate is sealed and no one has been able to unseal it, as the Old Testament stated?
Simply because people believe whatever they want to believe.
If a man believes he can fly without any technological aid I'll try to convince him that people can't.
Only personal experience can convince a person what he can and cannot do, but even then this is not also the case. Those people who keep rejecting reality are simply delusional.

Quote:
2. And why is it that we have the Jews returning to Israel, and they have retaken Jerusalem, as the Old Testament stated they would?
Because Europe had been guildtripped into giving the Jews Israel after what the Nazis had done to them.
But now that the Israeli government concerning the Gaza seems to act more like the Nazis in WWII, Europe does not blindly support Israel anymore.
It seems as if the Jews only lesson from the holocaust is that if you can't beat them, you should join them.

Quote:
4. What makes what is true, untrue, according to you?
Personal experience which you can share with others.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:02 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,129,232 times
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Tricky, you are a typical apostate european realist like many I have met over the years. You are intelligent, well read, logical and (I believe) well intentioned. This put's you at a great disadvantage in spiritual matters. It may take a "Road to Damascus" experience to knock you off of your horse. I will pray for your enlightenment. Intellect will not save you.
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:31 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by jujMany people (besides Napoleon Bonaparte himself because he knew he was Napoleon) believed themselves to be Napoleon.
Do you think that once Mr X (one of these insane people who believe themselves to be Napoleon) has gathered followers who, like their leader, believe that Mr X is Napoleon, Mr X suddenly becomes Napoleon?

One individual who suffers from a delusion is called insane, but a crowd who suffers from the same delusion is called a religion.
Just because 1000's of people believe that 1+1=11 does not make it so.
Unlike his believers I will maybe admit that Mr X knows a lot of Napoleon and may have studied him intensively, but I'll never believe that Mr X = Napoleon.
In other words; I believe in the philosophy of Jesus but do not care if he ever existed or not. As long as Jesusí philosophy works for me I will follow it.
I also do not believe that the Bible is a 100% correct when it comes to Jesus.
The fact that 95% of the world believes in a higher being and you don't probably means that they are all wrong. You are intelligence without wisdom. People like you are so sure of themselves until they are not.

Peace be with you!
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:23 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Bideshi
Quote:
Tricky, you are a typical apostate european realist like many I have met over the years. You are intelligent, well read, logical and (I believe) well intentioned. This put's you at a great disadvantage in spiritual matters. It may take a "Road to Damascus" experience to knock you off of your horse. I will pray for your enlightenment. Intellect will not save you.
It is about getting along TOGETHER.
Ask the people in Denmark what they find more important, freedom of speech & the right to insult others or keeping their jobs.

Originally Posted by juj
Quote:
The fact that 95% of the world believes in a higher being and you don't probably means that they are all wrong. You are intelligence without wisdom. People like you are so sure of themselves until they are not.
Who says I do not believe in a higher being?
I believe that God=Love and that Jesus' philosophy is the only path to God.
The thing is that every religion has rules that are similar to the Golden Rule, so I find the message (Jesus' philosophy) more important than the messenger (Jesus) himself.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:32 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by BideshiIt is about getting along TOGETHER.
Ask the people in Denmark what they find more important, freedom of speech & the right to insult others or keeping their jobs.

Originally Posted by juj Who says I do not believe in a higher being?
I believe that God=Love and that Jesus' philosophy is the only path to God.
The thing is that every religion has rules that are similar to the Golden Rule, so I find the message (Jesus' philosophy) more important than the messenger (Jesus) himself.
The golden rule is clearly a useful way of modeling your life, but giving that more importance than Jesus himself and all the other things he taught is completely missing the point. That's like saying you're favorite car is a Jaguar XJ6 because of it's efficient radiator fan blades.
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Earth. For now.
1,225 posts, read 1,774,739 times
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TrickyD, don't bother. No one can ever counter irrationalism. We may be entering a new dark age of anti-intellectualism and anti-rationalism. Those who choose the dark path can never be reasoned with, even though they claim that a god gives them insight and "truth" that illuminates their way.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:49 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Astron1000
Quote:
TrickyD, don't bother. No one can ever counter irrationalism. We may be entering a new dark age of anti-intellectualism and anti-rationalism.
Be that as it may, I will not give up hope that people will eventually see the light.
Doom and pessimism simply are not constructive, so as long as I draw breath I will have hope.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:28 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,333,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Astron1000 Be that as it may, I will not give up hope that people will eventually see the light.
Doom and pessimism simply are not constructive, so as long as I draw breath I will have hope.
Again, us Catholics don't believe that anybody knows when the end of the world will be. But as far as your laws, at some point, becoming Sharia law, is as simple as doing the match drawing out your line graph. I didn't say live your life in fear, I said be aware, and quit having just 1 or 2 kids per family. Every nation in North Africa in the year 500 was anything but Muslim because it didn't exist yet. Now every nation has their official state religion as Islam and their law stated as Islamic law. I didn't make that up. That where it's gone in less that 1500 years. Europe is next. The Koran tells them to. You'll probably be fine, but your grandkids will start to feel the pressure. I am not a doom person and generally a happy guy, but I am concerned as a European immigrant to the United States, that the Europe and the United States that I love and know will no longer be and that it will be more like Saudi Arabia where any Christian symbol, and that includes the Bible, is illegal. If that's okay to you, then, don't worry about it. Just remember if anything I do is illegal, then many of the things you cherish will also be illegal.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:22 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by juj
Quote:
Every nation in North Africa in the year 500 was anything but Muslim because it didn't exist yet. Now every nation has their official state religion as Islam and their law stated as Islamic law.
The thing about the Islam is that is all about equally sharing the wealth and keeping life agricultural in balance. Unlike most non-Islamic people believe, the Islam is not about expansionism and converting others to the Islam.
And no one was forced to convert to the Islam.
See my post http://www.city-data.com/forum/1883161-post40.html

The thing is that generallly it is far easier to rule the masses through fear than to lead with compassion.
People are also more easily motivated by fear than by trust.

Quote:
Proverb 11
27 He that diligently seeketh good procureth favour: but he that seeketh mischief, it shall come unto him.
Quote:
If that's okay to you, then, don't worry about it. Just remember if anything I do is illegal, then many of the things you cherish will also be illegal.
I generally do not concern myself with what is legal or illegal, I only concern myself with what is good and what is evil.
I believe that every nation is autonomous and that every nation 'deserves' the government it has.
You can only free the people who want to be freed, so you can't force freedom upon them.
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