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Old 03-20-2008, 12:10 PM
 
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I don't see that they can govern the areas they are a majority in now. Its a seemongly never ending conflict between the two sect and then thire are tribal problems as well as the radicals.They are in less control than in centuries past.Many have abandoned the middleeast to flee the conflict and the destruction of their societies.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:07 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,805,673 times
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Originally Posted by Campbell34
Quote:
Well I was not ignorant while I watched your Islamics murder 3,000 Americans in the world trade center, nor was I ignorant when I watched the fulfillment of Bible prophecies seeing the Jews return to Israel, and then later retaking Jerusalem.
Did you also see that the reality is that there are no WMD in Iraq?

Quote:
What reality are you talking about?
The Reality that Israel uses their holy scripture to commit genocide in Gaza, exactly like the Christians did during the centuries when the Europeans still had their colonies.

Originally Posted by texdav
Quote:
I don't see that they can govern the areas they are a majority in now.
You mean like the Catholic and Protestant Christians in Ireland?
If Europe never had the age of enlightenment, all the Catholics and Protestant probably would still be at war in Europe.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
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JerZ, yeah thanks for that clarification.
It just gets me going when I read only certain religious groups do wrong in some people's eyes..
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Old 03-22-2008, 05:48 AM
 
44 posts, read 69,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Whatever your Quran says, and what Islamics actually do, appears to be two different things. Maybe you should ask one of those three thousand dead Americans that died in the World Trade Center how peaceful Muslims are.
And before the start of the Crusades, Muslims killed of half of the Christians in the Middle East, and burnt to the ground 3,000 of their churches. Numerous Muslims get off attaching bombs to themselves and killing as many non believers as they can. Your faith is made up of many evil murders. And we see this everyday all around the world. Muslim fathers and mothers brag when their children blow themselves up killing other innocent civilians. You can take your faith shove it. While Christian build hospitals to help the down and outs, your people are there to burn them down. I can speak to this first hand, because I have Christian friends over seas who had to deal with Muslims Idiots who were doing just that.
Yours, my friend, is the most ridiculous reply of the year. A total lack of debating skills, intelligence and civility. Is that what your Christianity teaches you? To tell others to shove their religion. Id like to welcome you the 21st century.

Ohh, by the way, it is time to get real, and overcome your biblical fantasy, fiction, sci fi, whatever you want to call it. Thank god most Christians can tell reality from fantasy world.
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Old 03-22-2008, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
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Hmmmm....

You know, of the three trips I made to the Middle East (never went to Saudi Arabia) I can't say that I encountered the extremist woman hate mongering that the American news media tries to put out. To be fair, one of those trips was to Iraq which is in a bit of turmoil so I won't talk about that seeing as how we didn't make it much of a point to get out and see the sights and snap pictures.

My other two trips (Kuwait and Qatar) really blew my mind as to what I had been told by the media and the perception that Americans have of Middle Easterners and what actually existed. Did I see women wearing burkhas? Yeah. Did they have an Imam yell prayers out the top of the Mosque several times a day? Yeah. Did I see women being beaten by their husbands? Never. Did I see a vehement hatred towards a "Westerner"? No. In fact, most of the Middle Eastern "teenage" culture revolved around American fashion (although a bit dated) and the Western culture dominated the markets and the marketing. They have everything from Coca-Cola to Budweiser (in Qatar) to Ford to American movies. Western culture seemed to pervade most of the shopping districts and ads. I received high fives from many of the people and many big "thumbs-up(s)" especially in Kuwait. They were genuine people who were genuinely nice and weren't nearly as accosting, smug, and vehement as the media tries to portray. All in all, I can't say that I would pack my bags and move there, but I also couldn't say that if they told me I was headed there tomorrow that I'd be heartbroken. Perhaps that's just me, the guy who loves to immerse myself in culture, but I saw a different side to the "Muslim world" then what many try to make it out to be.

Is there some truth to the brutality behind women in the Muslim world? I'm sure there is. But, let's not forget something, we don't exactly have the greatest track record as far as domestic violence is concerned either. No, we usually don't hear about men beating their wives because they took off their veil, but does it make it any better if you're beating her because she forgot your six pack of beer to go along with the mustard for your grossly fetid white t-shirt? All in all, it seems that many of the trivialties often posed to "Middle Eastern culture" are issues that we deal with here in America. The only difference, it seems to me, is that it's not so widely reported.

Of course, I am talking about "Middle Eastern Culture" and that does encompass Islam. Did I encounter people in my travels who sneered at me? Sure. Was I ever questioned about my religion? No. Perhaps they just assumed because I was a Westerner I was a Christian. Who knows... To be quite honest though, I was received more poorly in Europe than anywhere in the Middle East. Of course, the one exception was in Iraq, but even then, the people who I did encounter were typically the same as my other encounters.

The world is not much different anywhere you go. People are people. Certain people dislike other people. Certain people don't care who you are. But, all in all, most people are genuinely courteous regardless of your race, religion, sex, or political affiliation.

Sometimes I wonder who has drawn the derisive line in the Middle East... Was it us or them? I don't remember seeing fliers or hearing comedians joke about Americans. Perhaps I didn't understand them, I don't speak Arabic, but I don't think my cab driver was listening to an arabic Larry the Cable Guy talk about the inanities of American culture. No, I didn't get that impression at all.

My impression of Islam and the Middle East was a lot better than I have seen in many places in America. That's just my humble opinion. Just trying to spread some perception that perhaps not all of them are suicide bombers who hate Americans... Then again, that might go against everything people like Larry the Cable Guy, Fox News, other media outlets, and apparently as this thread has shown, certain Christian groups in America try to present to an otherwise unknowing American public.

Ah Salaam Alaikum from your humble Atheist poster

Last edited by GCSTroop; 03-22-2008 at 06:15 AM.. Reason: Grammar and Effect
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Old 03-22-2008, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,325,293 times
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Originally Posted by SDBreaux View Post
I don't mean that literally, but what will happen when Islam is a majority religion, and Christianity is only second in command? The more progessive Christians become the more dominant Muslims seem to be. I would have no concern about a growing Muslim religion in the world if they respected American law and came to live American lives. Instead, many, but not all, are brining with them the traditions from their home countries. With that also comes a firm belief that Islam should be the law of the land, a place where other religions are not respected and kept separate.

Is it right to fear the spread of Islam in America? I believe we need to stand strong and firm in our belief that America, regardless the faults, is a nation of secular law, where no one religion can be the supreme law of the land.
It is right to FEAR the spread of any religion into the affairs of state. I FEAR the Christians in this country FAR more than I do the Muslims. The Christians have an agenda that is almost as radical as the Muslims and would put us back in the stone age. That is why freedom loving people must fight to insure that our government be totally SECULAR and not show favour to any religion whatever.
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Old 03-22-2008, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
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That I agree with,KevK
Religion has no place in government. Religion is a private matter, not something you have to scream from the rooftops. It's like sexuality, it's there but you don't have to say straights are better than gays or vice versa. That only creates problems.
Sometimes people are bashed because they do something different, different does not mean wrong.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:16 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,889,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
It is right to FEAR the spread of any religion into the affairs of state. I FEAR the Christians in this country FAR more than I do the Muslims. The Christians have an agenda that is almost as radical as the Muslims and would put us back in the stone age. That is why freedom loving people must fight to insure that our government be totally SECULAR and not show favour to any religion whatever.
I wonder if the 3,000 Americans who died in the World Trade Center feared Christians as much as you. And I don't think you will be able to keep your SECULAR government, because your policies have aborted your voting block. And that may be one of the reasons you may never see a Democrat in the White House again.
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Tens of thousands, and witch killings actually began in earnest around 1450 and extended for the next 200 years at least, with "witch" laws actually still being stricken from books during the late 1800s in some areas (though obviously any "witch" references in legal books are extremely spotty after 1750 or so).

For the record, only 20 people (I think--I'd have to look that one up to refresh my memory) died in the U.S. directly as a result of the Witch Trials. It was mainly in Europe where the executions happened, although that's partly just logistics--there were obviously many, many more people in Europe than in the U.S. in the early 17th century.

(Just as an aside, I think you meant to say Christians, not Catholics.)

The Inquisitions (there were actually several...people commonly recall the Spanish Inquisition when talking about this...these dudes WERE Catholic; maybe that's what you were thinking of?), too, involved a staggering amount of people and included any "undesirable". The Spanish Inquisition was very Holocaust-like in many ways.

ETA: Whoops. But for the record, yes, I agree...zealots, fanatics, sadists with sick fantasies and the mentally insane in power do not represent, or should not represent, the total of the religion they claim to be a part of.
Well there appears to be a lot of Muslims Zealots today, and I don't have to go back to the witch burnings, or the Inquisition of centuries past to point that out. Muslim riots and rampages are out of control. For a religion of peace, it sure seems to lend itself to violence. And it appears a number of Muslims around the earth believe in spreading the faith by the sword.
Muslims murder innocents, yet expect no criticism!
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:42 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,889,699 times
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Originally Posted by illinoisjustice View Post
Yours, my friend, is the most ridiculous reply of the year. A total lack of debating skills, intelligence and civility. Is that what your Christianity teaches you? To tell others to shove their religion. Id like to welcome you the 21st century.

Ohh, by the way, it is time to get real, and overcome your biblical fantasy, fiction, sci fi, whatever you want to call it. Thank god most Christians can tell reality from fantasy world.
Well reguardless of what you think of my debating skills, I would like to introduce you to the 21st century, and the reality of what is going on in the world. The links below will explain to you what Muslims are doing, and all of this is in the name of your God. My civility pales in comparson.

OpinionBug.com » Muslims Murder Christian Kids In Pakistan
Ambon, Indonesia: January, 2000
MUSLIMS RIOT FOR EXECUTION OF WRITER TASLIMA NASRIN (http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/nasrin1.htm - broken link)
Compass Direct News...
CNN.com - Muslim row filmmaker*'murdered' - Nov 2, 2004 (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11/02/netherlands.filmmaker/ - broken link)
The Moslem Riots: Why we owe them nothing
Bridges for Peace - Christians Fleeing Bethlehem´S Moslem Majority (http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2531 - broken link)
Fundamentalist Moslem violence in Britain (http://www.atheists.org/Islam/violenceinbritain.html - broken link)
Westcoaster.ca - Columnists - Demark Moslem Youth Riots Ignored While Paris Is Burning
- Christian Newswire...

It should be obvious all over the earth where ever there are Moslems we seem to have these problems. We don't see Christians or Jews strapping bombs on themselves. We don't see religions of other faiths demanding death for non believers as we do in the moslem faith. Even with my frustration with your inability to see what many of your faithful are doing to other Christians, or even to other non believers, I still don't call for violence.

CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOUR RELIGION OF PEACE, APPEARS TO FOSTER SO MUCH VIOLENCE AROUND THE WORLD?
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