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Old 03-26-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,273,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
No, that is false Christianity....Christian means Christlike, and i haven't met to many of those, including myself. I hope one day there will be many.

godspeed,

freedom
My point, freedom, is that it seems within every Christian there is this subjective description as to what constitutes a "true" Christian. For some, it is deemed as just accepting Jesus in their hearts and trying to live a "Christian lifestyle". It's that second part that people seem to trip over. It's like you'd think they were wearing "faith shoes" with the laces tied together. Each person seems to have their own description of what a "Christian lifestyle" is based on their interpretation of the Bible. Some feel that it's ok to drink, some don't. Some feel it's ok to be fat and overweight, some don't. Some feel it's ok to curse. Some don't. Some feel it's ok to do anything as long as you truly believe in the holy spirit. These are all subjective things. That different "Christians" can't seem to agree on. If it weren't so, then the Christianity forum above wouldn't always be a lit with debate. It'd just be a quiet, undulating, peaceful place to be. Yet, it's not. There's so much debate as to what constitutes a "Christian lifestyle" that to an outsider looking in, it seems utterly confusing.

Yet, with all of that going on, many "Christians" can't see the forest through the trees in their 'sister' religion of Islam. The same sort of bickering, dispute, and debate arises over what constitutes a "true" Muslim. What many people don't understand is the way the Middle Eastern culture is affected by Islam, or should I say, how the culture affects Islam in the Middle East. That is where the breakdown seems to come. It's a misunderstanding of not only the religion, but the culture (in secular format) itself. So, before the next "Christian" comes on here and defines what "Muslims" are doing, perhaps they ought to sit back and think about a clear cut definition of what a "true" Christian really is before they start putting labels on who is a "true" Muslim. They can't even figure out what's "true" to themselves yet they want to pin labels on those of other faiths so easily??? I hereby plant the bullsh** flag!
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:51 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
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If we are talking about Islam in its purest sense, then no problems.
If we are talking about living under Sharia Law ala Afganistan, then we have a major problem.
I don't see how any American alive today could live under Sharia Law well, or for very long. The concept of seperation between church and state is much too ingrained in all of us to willingly or peacably accept a theocracy.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:02 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narashansa View Post
You can not judge a religion based on 1 percent of its followers. if this is the case then no body in the history of humanity can break the record of C*******ns.

Judge Islam by the majority of its followers who live accross the globe.




May be you should ask the leaders why did they kill their own innocent people (The Inside Job).



And what about the Crusaders? How many have they killed and burned? and how many are they going to kill (the modern day Crusaders)?!



Your last claim is contradicting the first. Our faith is peaceful that you can judge by the majority. and you should also seek to know why are they killing themeselves.

and if you think a little you will realize that non Muslims kill most of the killings in the world rather than Muslims. War on Terror.
First of all, 9/11 an inside job? Really? Do you suppose Mohammad Abba et al were CIA?
Secondly, you are going to bring up the crusades? Five Hundred years ago Christians commited atrocities against Muslim people. Modern day crusaders? Oh, you must mean in the Sudan where Christians are being killed by Muslims who want the land.....yes, modern crusaders indeed.
Lastly, suicide bombers.....you ask why are they killing themselves? I ask you who is strapping the bombs on them and sending them off to Muslim markets and Muslim schools? Who strapped the bombs on the two down syndromed women in Iraq? Does Islam not recognize the sanctity of all life?

What I would like to say is that according the Koran, Islam is a religion of beauty and peace. Unfortunatly (like Christianity) in the hands of politicians and religious leaders with a decidedly non religious agenda, it can and has turned murderous and ugly.

My question is why have so many Muslims accepted this distortion of their religion?
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,662,407 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
My point, freedom, is that it seems within every Christian there is this subjective description as to what constitutes a "true" Christian. For some, it is deemed as just accepting Jesus in their hearts and trying to live a "Christian lifestyle". It's that second part that people seem to trip over. It's like you'd think they were wearing "faith shoes" with the laces tied together. Each person seems to have their own description of what a "Christian lifestyle" is based on their interpretation of the Bible. Some feel that it's ok to drink, some don't. Some feel it's ok to be fat and overweight, some don't. Some feel it's ok to curse. Some don't. Some feel it's ok to do anything as long as you truly believe in the holy spirit. These are all subjective things. That different "Christians" can't seem to agree on. If it weren't so, then the Christianity forum above wouldn't always be a lit with debate. It'd just be a quiet, undulating, peaceful place to be. Yet, it's not. There's so much debate as to what constitutes a "Christian lifestyle" that to an outsider looking in, it seems utterly confusing.

Yet, with all of that going on, many "Christians" can't see the forest through the trees in their 'sister' religion of Islam. The same sort of bickering, dispute, and debate arises over what constitutes a "true" Muslim. What many people don't understand is the way the Middle Eastern culture is affected by Islam, or should I say, how the culture affects Islam in the Middle East. That is where the breakdown seems to come. It's a misunderstanding of not only the religion, but the culture (in secular format) itself. So, before the next "Christian" comes on here and defines what "Muslims" are doing, perhaps they ought to sit back and think about a clear cut definition of what a "true" Christian really is before they start putting labels on who is a "true" Muslim. They can't even figure out what's "true" to themselves yet they want to pin labels on those of other faiths so easily??? I hereby plant the bullsh** flag!
I'll gladly help you plant that flag, and mark this as one of my favorite posts that you have written.

Christ said, I am the way (which to me means living and being what he taught)... What a world this would be, no religions.

Then came the arm of flesh vomiting all over it and leading people into division and hatred and bigotry.
If any, including myself, actually lived it. There would not be any need to preach or teach... people would see the power and results of love and kindness and desire to be. Positive peer influence.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,662,407 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by boycew02 View Post
Nobody can be Christlike because to be Christlike would mean to be perfect. If you believe the Bible then Jesus himself acknowledged that your average human ain't ever gonna be perfect and so He died for everyone's sins. By your reasoning there are no Christians in the world.
Open your heart to what is possible, for with God all things are possible.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal to God.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Cr 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. 1Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:36 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,886,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
Just as you deem yourself the luxury of labeling who is or isn't a Christian why are you not allowing the same privilege to the Muslim??? You say Hitler wasn't a Christian because he didn't "act" like a Christian. Yet, you have the blind audacity to say that a Muslim who kills is still a Muslim. Have you ever thought that perhaps they weren't "true" Muslims in the same way that Hitler wasn't a "true" Christian???? Or are you just preferring to stick to bigoted labels to encompass everyone? That sounds like "true" Christianity to me....
Well again you did not read my post. I did not lable who a Christian is, Jesus Christ did, and I have repeated that numerous times. And in the Muslim text it gives them the right to take a human life to destroy the unbelievers. The Bible does not do this in the New Testament. In the Muslim text, those who die killing unbelievers are rewarded, and that is why Muslims are blowing themselves up. It is one of the only ways a Muslim can know for sure they will make it to heaven. And before you start calling me a bigot, please do a little research on what some Muslims are being taught.
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,273,104 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well again you did not read my post. I did not lable who a Christian is, Jesus Christ did, and I have repeated that numerous times. And in the Muslim text it gives them the right to take a human life to destroy the unbelievers. The Bible does not do this in the New Testament. In the Muslim text, those who die killing unbelievers are rewarded, and that is why Muslims are blowing themselves up. It is one of the only ways a Muslim can know for sure they will make it to heaven. And before you start calling me a bigot, please do a little research on what some Muslims are being taught.
It's a two way street, Campbell. If you want to play the game then fine. I suggest you take a deep, long, hard look at Christianity and figure out why it is that people feel the necessity to blow up abortion clinics, protest at soldiers' funeral's by calling them "****" and commit other atrocities throughout history in the name of the Christian God. I understand what SOME Muslims are being taught. But, I also understand what SOME Christians are being taught. My entire point was that you so easily write people off as "non-Christian" because it doesn't fit in with your viewpoints, but you can so easily recognize that a suicide bomber is a "true" Muslim because SOME are taught that. By this logic and rationale, we must therefore encompass the abortion clinic bombers, the Westboro Baptist Church, Adolf Hitler, and the Spanish Inquisitors as Christians. Don't like it? Tough. That's religion for ya!
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:12 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,886,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
It's a two way street, Campbell. If you want to play the game then fine. I suggest you take a deep, long, hard look at Christianity and figure out why it is that people feel the necessity to blow up abortion clinics, protest at soldiers' funeral's by calling them "****" and commit other atrocities throughout history in the name of the Christian God. I understand what SOME Muslims are being taught. But, I also understand what SOME Christians are being taught. My entire point was that you so easily write people off as "non-Christian" because it doesn't fit in with your viewpoints, but you can so easily recognize that a suicide bomber is a "true" Muslim because SOME are taught that. By this logic and rationale, we must therefore encompass the abortion clinic bombers, the Westboro Baptist Church, Adolf Hitler, and the Spanish Inquisitors as Christians. Don't like it? Tough. That's religion for ya!
It's a two way street, because we have two Books that are telling people two different things. The Bible tells us not to kill. And then we have an Islamic book that tells it's people it's ok when spreading the faith by the sword. Murder is outlawed in the Bible. And those who murder are not Christians, and Jesus Christ makes this plain reguardless of what people who claim to be Christian do. Yet under Islamic law such is not the case. That's why Iran now is going to inact a law that will put a man to death for turning away from Islam. You will not see such a law inacted under the Christian faith, because accepting Christ is a free choice. Some Muslims are taught to kill non believers because their religious text supports that belief, the Bible does not support this kind of belief. You have to look at the religious text to understand why you have such violence in one faith, and not that same violence in another. It all comes down to what these texts incourage, and support.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,273,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
It's a two way street, because we have two Books that are telling people two different things. The Bible tells us not to kill. And then we have an Islamic book that tells it's people it's ok when spreading the faith by the sword. Murder is outlawed in the Bible. And those who murder are not Christians, and Jesus Christ makes this plain reguardless of what people who claim to be Christian do. Yet under Islamic law such is not the case. That's why Iran now is going to inact a law that will put a man to death for turning away from Islam. You will not see such a law inacted under the Christian faith, because accepting Christ is a free choice. Some Muslims are taught to kill non believers because their religious text supports that belief, the Bible does not support this kind of belief. You have to look at the religious text to understand why you have such violence in one faith, and not that same violence in another. It all comes down to what these texts incourage, and support.
You completely ignored the fact that people have still used the Bible to support their atrocities and we still consider them Christians. When we review history, we don't say "The non-Christians who didn't accept Jesus started a Holy Crusade." We don't say that because we consider them Christians. We don't say "The non-Christian radical who bombed the abortion clinic" because we still consider them of the Christian faith. What it all boils down to is the interpretation of one's view. Some have more radical viewpoints of their particular faith. Suicide bomber's find some sort of justified rationalization behind the Koran. However, I think that if this were something profoundly written in the Koran then EVERY Muslim would be blowing themselves up. That is not the case. Likewise, if there were something profoundly written in the Bible to justify protesting a soldier's funeral or blowing up an abortion clinic then EVERY Christian might be doing so. However, that is not true. Yet, we still call the suicide bomber a Muslim (however radical), but you also have to consider the abortion clinic bomber as a Christian (however radical).


What I see you trying to do is set a double standard in saying that "true" Islam encourages suicide bombings but "true" Christianity does not promote anything of the sort. However, where I find your logic lacking is that both sides have committed atrocities in the name of their respective holy books. We still call them "Muslims". We still call them "Christians". You might not like being grouped into the same category as an abortion clinic bomber because we call them "Christian" but I don't see where you get off in justifying that it is OK to just say that all Muslims feel they should become suicide bombers. You're deliberately trying to show something that is not and I can't help but feel that that comes from a genuine misunderstanding and ignorance of other cultures and religions which is why I posted those links to some very interesting books a few posts back.

I agree, at this current moment in time, the Muslim world is under the microscope because of recent world events. However, that doesn't mean that they are ALL suicide bombers or even that their holy book promotes a specific type of violence. It may seem that way at this point in time, but we mustn't stoop so low as to say that all Muslims feel this current jihad is justified. To do so, would mean the same as saying that all abortion clinic bombers are representative of the Christian religion.

Hopefully that gets through to you.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:12 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,886,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
You completely ignored the fact that people have still used the Bible to support their atrocities and we still consider them Christians. When we review history, we don't say "The non-Christians who didn't accept Jesus started a Holy Crusade." We don't say that because we consider them Christians. We don't say "The non-Christian radical who bombed the abortion clinic" because we still consider them of the Christian faith. What it all boils down to is the interpretation of one's view. Some have more radical viewpoints of their particular faith. Suicide bomber's find some sort of justified rationalization behind the Koran. However, I think that if this were something profoundly written in the Koran then EVERY Muslim would be blowing themselves up. That is not the case. Likewise, if there were something profoundly written in the Bible to justify protesting a soldier's funeral or blowing up an abortion clinic then EVERY Christian might be doing so. However, that is not true. Yet, we still call the suicide bomber a Muslim (however radical), but you also have to consider the abortion clinic bomber as a Christian (however radical).


What I see you trying to do is set a double standard in saying that "true" Islam encourages suicide bombings but "true" Christianity does not promote anything of the sort. However, where I find your logic lacking is that both sides have committed atrocities in the name of their respective holy books. We still call them "Muslims". We still call them "Christians". You might not like being grouped into the same category as an abortion clinic bomber because we call them "Christian" but I don't see where you get off in justifying that it is OK to just say that all Muslims feel they should become suicide bombers. You're deliberately trying to show something that is not and I can't help but feel that that comes from a genuine misunderstanding and ignorance of other cultures and religions which is why I posted those links to some very interesting books a few posts back.

I agree, at this current moment in time, the Muslim world is under the microscope because of recent world events. However, that doesn't mean that they are ALL suicide bombers or even that their holy book promotes a specific type of violence. It may seem that way at this point in time, but we mustn't stoop so low as to say that all Muslims feel this current jihad is justified. To do so, would mean the same as saying that all abortion clinic bombers are representative of the Christian religion.

Hopefully that gets through to you.
Some people can use anything to justify murder, like I said, the Bible does not support murder. How many times do I have to say this. The Islamic faith does support murder when it comes to spreading the faith by the sword. And that murder is supported by their (religious text). Today Christian follow the teaching of Christ, the Islamics are still stuck in Old Testament thinking. And it appears the only thing you can come up with is an abortion clinic bomber who claimed to be Christian. Which was one misguided persons attempt to end abortion. Yet you try to put that on a par with the 10s of thousands who are being kill all over the earth by Islamics daily. And again you did not read my post, because I said (most Muslims are peaceful people). I am directing my point to the many thousands that are not. I'm not ignorant of the fact that many Muslims around the world are killing Christians at an alarming rate, and feel justified in doing so. We don't see this kind of activity by Christians. We don't see Christians burning down Muslims Mosques, nor do we see Christian blowing themselves up to kill Muslims, we don't see Christians setting Muslims on fire, or cutting off their heads. We don't hear Christians calling for death because someone has chosen he nolonger cares to be a Christian. You really seem to have a real disconnect when it comes to what is happening in the world today. Christians are active in the work to help the down and outs. Their activities are far more constructive, and often it is Christians who go to areas where the Muslims are in need, especially because of recent disasters that have struck their homes. And they do this even when Muslims threaten them. My main point is, that if their religious text was from God, why does it lend itself to so much violence in the world? Why does it support the spreading the faith by the sword? And you really can't fault those in their faith who are doing the killing, because it is their religious text that is giving them the the right to pratice such violence.
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