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Old 08-15-2012, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Chicago
76 posts, read 119,788 times
Reputation: 41

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The Quran makes no sense, imo, without the wider narrative laid down in the hadith literature regarding Muhammad, his history, and events during his lifetime. When you read the hadith, they explain the intended purposes of Quranic verses. They are also both, Quran and Sunnah, transmitted by the same people so I don't see how you could accept one and not the other. I personally find many more practical teachings in the hadith.

I think most of the issues raised by the OP are critiques of 7th century values/practices, which of course Islam being from the 7th century expresses. I think rather than try to claim that the entirety of historical Islam has been astray, just say that you disagree with some things and simply abrogate them from your practice of the religion.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
3,912 posts, read 1,825,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoBay View Post
The Quran makes no sense, imo, without the wider narrative laid down in the hadith literature regarding Muhammad, his history, and events during his lifetime. When you read the hadith, they explain the intended purposes of Quranic verses. They are also both, Quran and Sunnah, transmitted by the same people so I don't see how you could accept one and not the other. I personally find many more practical teachings in the hadith.
I assume most Muslims believe the Quran is the absolute word of your god.

Do you also believe the Hadith is the word of your god, or was it written by learned people trying to help you understand the Quran?
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:07 AM
 
132 posts, read 114,463 times
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In The Name of The Only God, Allaah, The Self-Subsisting in Whom All subsist. As salaamu alaykum; Peace Be Upon You Everyone.


002.106 يرٌ
002.106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? Al-Qur'an, 002.106 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])


Quote:
Yes the Quran confirmed the authority of the Old and New Testament. The Sunnis and Shias however believe these scriptures have been abrogated. They also believe many verses of the Quran have been abrogated, particularly by verse 9.5 and maybe also 9.29. They believe these two verses changed the the concept of war in the Quran from defensive to offensive hence starting the so called Islamic conquests. The Quran only recognizes defensive war and the term conquest is non existent in the Quran.
You cannot simply imply that shias will engage in offensive war. Iran has attacked no one but is constantly under threat of war from Israel. Is this correct? Yet, it fought back courageously against the attack of Saddam's Iraq. Is this correct?

Quote:
Some Quranist like myself take from the previous scriptures. I regularly look at the Bible. Others only take from Quran. Some even look at Islamic hadiths, but only recognize the ones that do not contradict the Quran.
I know of people who can make perfectly good sense of Ahadiith. You obviously know nothing of the Science of Ahadiith ~ also see:

http://kalamullah.com/Books/An%20Int...f%20Hadith.pdf


Wa salaam. devotee

Last edited by june 7th; 08-22-2012 at 08:02 AM.. Reason: Per the TOS English only in posts.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:46 PM
 
132 posts, read 114,463 times
Reputation: 36
In The Name of The Only God, Allaah, The Self-Subsisting in Whom All subsist. As salaamu alaykum; Peace Be Upon You Everyone.



Quote:
Some Quranist like myself take from the previous scriptures. I regularly look at the Bible. Others only take from Quran. Some even look at Islamic hadiths, but only recognize the ones that do not contradict the Quran.
I read the Bible occasionally, and take verses for posting when needed. But to be honest, the Bible in some areas, contradict The Holy Qur'an. A well known conflict is the crucifixion, as Al-Qur'an states that the Prophet Isa [Jesus, PBUH] was neither killed nor crucified. So, obviously someone else died in Prophet Isa's [Jesus' PBUH] stead. Ahadith mention some likely scenarios. But Judas Iscariot, is the prime suspect, so to speak, as I see it.


Wa salaam. devotee





[LEFT]
Read more: Collapse of Sunni/Shia and Rise of the Quranist
[/LEFT]
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
10,814 posts, read 4,405,216 times
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This is my own opinion and like all opinions is the thought of a person and subject to human error. Astagfirullah (May Allah forgive me)

What I see as a problem is too often people making fatwah (an opinion based upon scripture) do not understand even the basics of Ahadith studies. They assume if a Hadith has been written it must be true and seen as indisputable.

I am essentially very much a beginner in the study of Ahadith so please verify all things.

The Ahadith are collections of what have been reported as eye-witness accounts of things the Prophet has said and/or was seen to do. There are almost countless such collections. We have not had and probably never will have any group destroy any collections because they disagree with it, it is up to the reader to determine the value of each Hadith. The tools that can be used are the chains of narration, if you can not find a verifiable tracking from today back to a witness living during the time of Muhammad, it is not a verified hadith, that does not mean it is true or false, it means we we do not know.

When a person uses a Hadith to verify their opinion we have the responsibility to make them show us the validity through proven narrations.

The problem we have that seems to justify Ahadith rejectors is too many quote Ahadith without giving verification.

But I do not see that as a reason to assume we are not obligated to follow the Ahadith and makes me think a Hadith rejector is just as wrong as the person who accepts anything presented as Ahadith without verification.

Being Quran only, is not going to eliminate sects. A person can be Sunni, Shi'ite, Sufi, etc and be a Hadith rejector
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:17 AM
 
132 posts, read 114,463 times
Reputation: 36
In The Name of The Only God, Allaah, The Self-Subsisting in Whom All subsist. As salaamu alaykum; Peace Be Upon You Everyone.


It might be a good idea for Quranist, and others to study from a well researched and maintained source of learning while it is still available A Shi'ite Encyclopedia There is both a 'Zipped file' and a 'text file'. However Chapter 5, is not presently available for the 'text file'. Wassalaam. devotee







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