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Old 07-19-2015, 08:07 AM
 
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"that means he was one of the previous prophets but still that prophet or any prophet does not attack town or people"

Yes he did.

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If you come to a township (which has surrendered without a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it. If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually defends the town against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346)

We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets. When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

When the apostle raided a people he waited until the morning. If he heard a call to prayer he held back; if he did not hear it he attacked. We came to Khaybar by night, and the apostle passed the night there; and when morning came he did not hear the call to prayer, so he rode and we rode with him. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)
The question Ali posed would have been unnecessary had the Muslims been under attack by the Khaybar!!!!

Why did allah decide that Muhammed could legally steal booty from townspeople he attacked?

Why was Muhammed stealing booty before it was legal?

Since Muhammed is a perfect example to follow, does that mean we should all be stealing?

Why did allah think the sun rotated around the earth!!??

Why does allah want this slaughtering? He CREATED THE UNIVERSE!! Why not make all people Muslim?

Who would divide up the booty today?

Was this gold the life savings of the townspeople that Muhammed stole? Gold really doesn't burn, it melts. So what happened to the melted gold?
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:57 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 1,653,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Yes he did.

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

What was the reason for the attack?
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:10 PM
 
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"What was the reason for the attack?"

Muhammed wanted to steal their belongings. Can you show me ONE hadith that mentions Muhammad making any effort at peacemaking? In this case, Muhammad's men raped the women (with his approval) after slaughtering the men (Sahih Muslim 3371). What does raping a female captive have to do with self-defense?
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"What was the reason for the attack?"

Muhammed wanted to steal their belongings. Can you show me ONE hadith that mentions Muhammad making any effort at peacemaking? In this case, Muhammad's men raped the women (with his approval) after slaughtering the men (Sahih Muslim 3371). What does raping a female captive have to do with self-defense?
Quote:
The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah)
Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadith 3371

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.



Where in 3371 does Muhammad(saws) give approval of anything?

The only thing Muslim could ascertain is Muhammad(saws)'s opinion of coitus interruptis which is why Muslim included this in his "Book of Marriage"
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:18 AM
 
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"The only thing Muslim could ascertain is Muhammad(saws)'s opinion of coitus interruptis which is why Muslim included this in his "Book of Marriage"

Well, no.

We know from the verse that Muhammed's gang was mass raping the captive women.
We know that they intended to sell/ransom the women after raping them.
We know that they were worried that they would get less payment if the women were pregnant.
We know Muhammed told them to go ahead and ejaculate into the women.
We know that Muhammed thought sperm doesn't matter in making a woman pregnant...that if Allah wants her pregnant, she'll get pregnant with or without the sperm.
We know Muhammed said nothing at all about stopping the mass rape.

Think about it. Muhammed is in charge here. The leader and PROPHET. He knows his men are mass raping women. He is asked if they should be withdrawing their penis before ejaculating into the women. He says go ahead and ejaculate into them. How is this not giving approval?

Of course context matters so let's look at a verse that adds context and gives explicit approval for the mass rape of captive women. The approval comes from a shocking source!

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Now we learn that ALLAH, the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, actually encouraged and made legal the mass rape of captive women! Even in front of their husbands! THAT is in the Quran - the direct word from THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

We also learn that these were married men that raped the captive women and that the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE said it was lawful for married Muslim men to be raping married women if they are slaves/captives.

"right hands possess" means the slaves/captive women.
Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife - islamqa.info

Here are two verses about selling women and giving women out as gifts:
"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878)

Another verse:
"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

Muslims today have been mass raping non-Muslim women and children. I have posted many news accounts about this.
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Old 07-21-2015, 01:02 PM
 
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The Koran seems to be just a much later, more anti- female, version of the old Testament. Why, if this book was written quite recently in terms of human development and civilisation should people take it so seriously. I believe that the creator, ( God) is most likely female and not an old man with a grotty beard. The book appears to have just Circa 800 AD human hands all over it.
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Old 07-21-2015, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by England Dan View Post
The Koran seems to be just a much later, more anti- female, version of the old Testament. Why, if this book was written quite recently in terms of human development and civilisation should people take it so seriously. I believe that the creator, ( God) is most likely female and not an old man with a grotty beard. The book appears to have just Circa 800 AD human hands all over it.
W do not believe Allaah(swt) has any gender. He is neither male, female nor composed of physical matter and not of this world. We believe he is not material and is beyond description.
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Old 07-21-2015, 03:41 PM
 
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You said, He, twice. Is Allah male or female? just the way that Muslims, especially the Salafist Muslims do not respect women. I thought the Koran only states for women and men to dress moderately, why then is a women dressed in black while the men strut around in sports gear? I am confused. Why don't Salafist men take the Koran seriously, instead of putting their own deadly human hand upon it, telling Allah what should be done. I think Salafists should be more humble, revere women more and embrace other religions, also to follow the correct interpretation of the book. Only then will Allah accept you.
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Old 07-21-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by England Dan View Post
You said, He, twice. Is Allah male or female? just the way that Muslims, especially the Salafist Muslims do not respect women. I thought the Koran only states for women and men to dress moderately, why then is a women dressed in black while the men strut around in sports gear? I am confused. Why don't Salafist men take the Koran seriously, instead of putting their own deadly human hand upon it, telling Allah what should be done. I think Salafists should be more humble, revere women more and embrace other religions, also to follow the correct interpretation of the book. Only then will Allah accept you.
To get a Salafi view you will have to ask a Salafi. World wide very few Muslim women dress in black.



I personally believe the Wahabbi (Salafi) are following a heretical madhab.

I use He because I am writing in English. In English He is the accepted pronoun when an entity has no gender, or the gender is unknown.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:49 PM
 
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This is my translation of the interpretation of the Quran by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly, the interpreter of the Quran and the Bible:

Soora (or chapter) 1

1. In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.a

2. Praise be to God, the Lord of nations. b

3. Most Gracious c, Most Merciful d.

4. Master e of the Day of Judgment f.

5. You [alone] we worship; and You [alone] we ask for help. g

6. Show us the standard way. h

7. The way [followed] by those [monotheists: Paradise people] on whom You have been Gracious and Bounteous i, neither [the way] of those [Jews] with whom You have been angry j, nor [the way] of those [Christians] who have gone astray! k
---------------------------------------------------

a It means: We start the admonition of the Quran (in the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.)
b This is an instruction to us to thank God for His bounties, and to say always: (Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds.)
c i.e. He shows mercy to both believers and unbelievers in the life of this World.
d His mercy, in the Next Life, includes only believers and does not include unbelievers.
So the word (Most Gracious) is general, and the word (Most Merciful) is special.
e It means: He is my Master Who owns me on the Day of Judgment; He disposes in myself as He pleases, and none apart from Him disposes in my affairs on that day; this is indicated by His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 82: 19 which means:
([The Day of Requital or Judgment will be] the day when no soul can control any [intercession] for any soul; for on that day the authority will [absolutely] be God's [authority.])
f It is the Day of Judgment or Requital.
In a parable: "With whatever judgment you judge [others], you will be judged [in the same manner.]" i.e. you will be rewarded according to your work.
g And it is not allowed to seek the help of anyone other than God.
h It means: Lead us along the way of "the exclusive devotion to God alone": the way which will lead us to Paradise in the Next Life.
i It means: the way followed by your prophets and those devoted to You: those to whom You have been Gracious by admitting them into Paradise in Heaven.
It is like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 4: 69 which means:
(They [will] be with those to whom God has shown favor [by admitting them into Paradise]: prophets, true believers, martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!)

The guidance is of two sorts:
The first is in the life of the World: it is the guidance to "the exclusive devotion to God alone" and the righteousness;
and the second, is in the Next Life, which is the guidance to the way to Paradise.
This is indicated by His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 10: 9 which means:
(Surely, those who believe and work the righteous [work]; their Lord will guide them [to the way to Paradise] because of their faith [in God and in His messenger]; rivers will flow below their [trees] in the Gardens of prosperity.)
j It means: neither [the way] of those [Jews who associated with God and worshipped the calf; therefore, You became wrathful with them.]
k It means: nor the way of Christians who missed the way of the truth: because they said God is one of three in Trinity.
The meaning: Don't lead us to the way followed by the stubborn disbeliever who recognized the truth but turned away from it according to their pride and stubbornness; so You became wrathful with them because of their disbelief and association.

This is indicated by His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 4: 168-169 which means:
(Surely, those who disbelieve [in that revealed to you, Mohammed], and oppress [the believers] – God would not forgive them [their sins] neither will He guide them to any road [to Paradise] – save the road to Hell)

The meaning of the aya 1: 7
Let us be of those whose acts are good so they will go to Paradise; and don't let us be of those whose acts are bad so they will go to Hell.
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