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Old 10-18-2012, 08:43 AM
 
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I have also posted this on the christian section , hope that is allowed. i thought it was pertinent to both really. so question is, do you think western aid should be withdrawn from Pakistan until they take measures to stop the abuse of their blasphemy laws and the persecution of christians?

The Rape and Murder of Pakistan's Christian Children | Terrorism Right Side News
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
I have also posted this on the christian section , hope that is allowed. i thought it was pertinent to both really. so question is, do you think western aid should be withdrawn from Pakistan until they take measures to stop the abuse of their blasphemy laws and the persecution of christians?

The Rape and Murder of Pakistan's Christian Children | Terrorism Right Side News

It is actually a violation of Islam for them to be taking the aid in the first place. In my opinion they should be giving aid to others, not taking any.

As for their Blasphemy Laws they are in violation of sharia as Blasphemy is not a Hadd crime under the hanafi Madhab they claim to follow. The Hadd laws are those under which the state or country has the responsibility to enforce

In the Hanafi Madhab of Sharia the Hadd Crimes are:

1 Highway Robbery

2. Theft

3. Unlawful sexual relations (Which are any outside of Marriage)

4. False accusation of Unlawful Sexual Relations

5. Drinking Alcohol or other intoxicants

Pakistan does not have the right to make any laws pertaining to blasphemy as it is not a Hadd crime.

A difference between them and Saudi is Saudi follows the Hanbali Madhab of sharia which Sees apostasy and Blasphemy as Hadd crimes. While Muslims are permitted to follow the Madhab of their own choosing. It is to be only one that one is to be followed fully without picking parts from any other Madhabs. Pakistan has chosen the hanafi madhab, but is selecting parts of the hanbali mahab in addition and not even following them correctly.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:41 AM
 
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This is where the problem lies. Because they do see things from an Islamic point of view and they use Islam to justify their actions. Particularly when it comes to crimes against Christians and other non muslims.

And they do take the Aid 650 million from the UK in 2012. This at a time when the poor in our society are struggling to make ends meet. But we see it as our moral duty, a duty I agree with. But I starting to think that with so much human right abuses going on in plain view of the Pakistan government...I'm thinking maybe we should be putting conditions on it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
This is where the problem lies. Because they do see things from an Islamic point of view and they use Islam to justify their actions. Particularly when it comes to crimes against Christians and other non muslims.

And they do take the Aid 650 million from the UK in 2012. This at a time when the poor in our society are struggling to make ends meet. But we see it as our moral duty, a duty I agree with. But I starting to think that with so much human right abuses going on in plain view of the Pakistan government...I'm thinking maybe we should be putting conditions on it.
They are seeing things from a Wahabbi view, not an Islamic view. Even Muslims that practice Islam in Pakistan are persecuted by Wahabbi'ism. while the Wahabbi are a small number in Pakistan, they seem to have the support of the government. the only thing the war in Afghanistan has accomplished is to drive the wahabbi out of Afghanistan into Pakistan.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:30 AM
 
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For a small number, they certainly cause a lot of pain and death to innocent people. Many who are children, if you read the link. They also seem to get away with it. So I take it to mean that all those in authority who turn a blind eye to this persecution...court, police, government etc. are also part of this small minority. Or can this minority Weald such awful power that they just do what they want.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:35 AM
 
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By the way..the women who falsely accused in the Asia Bibi case (link below) were muslim, the imman who has offered a reward for anyone who kills her, should she be released from prison, is also a muslim. Doesn't say what sect...but then does that really matter.

BBC News - Pakistani Christian Asia Bibi 'has price on her head'
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,363,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
For a small number, they certainly cause a lot of pain and death to innocent people. Many who are children, if you read the link. They also seem to get away with it. So I take it to mean that all those in authority who turn a blind eye to this persecution...court, police, government etc. are also part of this small minority. Or can this minority Weald such awful power that they just do what they want.
The Pakistan government has a long history of Corruption. Much of this aid money given to Pakistan goes into the pocket of politicians and not to help the people.

Pakistan is and always has been a very unstable country. I doubt if it can last much longer as a Nation. You have an immediate 3 way internal split. those who want it to be a State of Iran. those who want it ro return to being more in line with Bengali culture and those who want it to be returned to India.

You also have outside influences. both Russia and China see it as needed for a pipeline to pump oil from the Mideastern Nation and some of the Western does not want that to happen.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,363,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
By the way..the women who falsely accused in the Asia Bibi case (link below) were muslim, the imman who has offered a reward for anyone who kills her, should she be released from prison, is also a muslim. Doesn't say what sect...but then does that really matter.

BBC News - Pakistani Christian Asia Bibi 'has price on her head'
Yes they are Muslim. But they may not be following Islam.

There is a paradox in Pakistan, you have some of the most educated Islamic scholars there and at the same time one of the largest population of Muslims with little knowledge of Islam.

Bengali and Pashtun culture along with the wahabbi movement seem to have more influence than Islam.

Very recently the majority of Pakistanis favored the building of more churches.

From a Chinese newspaper just 4 years ago:

Quote:
Nearly 70% Pakistanis support Christians to build churches
Quote:


ISLAMABAD, Jan. 8 (Xinhua) -- As many as 69 percent of Pakistanis believed that Christians in Muslim countries like Pakistan should be allowed to construct churches for worship, a survey said on Friday.

The remaining 31 percent either did not support the idea or gave no response, according to a Gilani Research Foundation survey carried out by Gallup Pakistan.
SOURCE
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:08 PM
 
762 posts, read 993,376 times
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4 tears is a log time in some instances..I expect those very churches could well have been burnt down by now.

And weather they are following Islam or not, the world at large does not distinguish between a muslim acting badly and claiming he's acting according to Islam or the majority of muslims who do act according to Islam and do good. Unfortunately bad deeds make the most noise and that's what gives the impression. Add to that the silence from the many good muslims that often do not protest about the bad actions of the few. It makes them look guilty by association.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Pakistan does not have the right to make any laws pertaining to blasphemy as it is not a Hadd crime.
Woodrow, as you have observed during your long life, people do not need to have a "right" to do something. All they need is the power and the desire to do it.

Pakistan can make any stupid law they want to.

If it is in the interest of the United States to aid Pakistan, then we should do it. Otherwise, we should not do it.
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