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Old 11-21-2012, 03:51 AM
 
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Christianity hinges on the belief in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. The Bible documents the event for various viewpoints, and indeed the teachings of Jesus himself lead us to the event. It was the reason for his being. Apart from the biblical evidence there is also archeological evidence and independent historical evidence that offers proof that it happened.

Six hundred years later the Quran state that it never happened, and in fact Allah ~

Deceived people into believing that another was substituted and died in place of Jesus.

Jesus was raised up to Heaven...alive.

So the resurrection never happened.

So therefore there is no basis to Christianity.

The trouble I have with point one...The God I believe in does not lie or cheat people. What reason would God have to create this subterfuge, at the last minute, God is aware of all that transpires if he had wished then Jesus could have been saved at any point in time that God chose. God did not save him because it was Gods will that Jesus died this way. God does everything for a reason and the death of Jesus was for the salvation of mankind. That, for me at least, makes more sense that God making a switch. On another point, Jesus was scourged before death, was the substitute also scourged in this way? For surely if he had not been it would have been noticed by the onlookers..or did God put a veil over their eyes, if so then there was again no point at all.

Point two..how and when was Jesus raised up to heaven? Is it possible to enter heaven before death as a physical being? It is possible for a soul to exist in heaven but how so a physical form where is the proof, witnesses, historical or archaeological that this happened? Apart from the small information found in the Quran.

Point three... If the resurrection never happened..what happened after? Who was placed in the tomb? And where did they disappear to. the Quran does not answer this. Is it enough to say they crucified him not..without offering any proof of the alternative as fact? I don't believe it is.

Point four.. Well billions believe the facts that support the event happened, the reasons why it happened. This truth as lasted two thousand years and will no doubt exist long into the future..for Gods truth is eternal.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:55 AM
 
762 posts, read 990,088 times
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YouTube


Just found out how to post you tubes...how easy was that!!!
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,317,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Christianity hinges on the belief in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. The Bible documents the event for various viewpoints, and indeed the teachings of Jesus himself lead us to the event. It was the reason for his being. Apart from the biblical evidence there is also archeological evidence and independent historical evidence that offers proof that it happened.
The evidence is far less than what you have been taught. There is no physical evidence at all that connect John, Mark, Luke qnd Mathew to Jesus. It is not even known who the Authors of the 5 Gospels were. They were not even given names until centuries later. Seek out this alleged archeological evidence and tell us what it is. It is all a lie perpetrated by Paul and quickly adopted by the Greeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Six hundred years later the Quran state that it never happened, and in fact Allah ~

Deceived people into believing that another was substituted and died in place of Jesus.

Jesus was raised up to Heaven...alive.

So the resurrection never happened.

So therefore there is no basis to Christianity.
While there is no physical evidence of the Crucifixion, we do accept somebody the Jews and Roman's believed was Jesus took place. However, the Qur'an through the word's of Allaah(swt) tell us the person they believed to have been Jesus was somebody else and Jesus was lifted up to heaven before he could be crucified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
The trouble I have with point one...The God I believe in does not lie or cheat people. What reason would God have to create this subterfuge, at the last minute, God is aware of all that transpires if he had wished then Jesus could have been saved at any point in time that God chose. God did not save him because it was Gods will that Jesus died this way. God does everything for a reason and the death of Jesus was for the salvation of mankind. That, for me at least, makes more sense that God making a switch. On another point, Jesus was scourged before death, was the substitute also scourged in this way? For surely if he had not been it would have been noticed by the onlookers..or did God put a veil over their eyes, if so then there was again no point at all.
There is no physical evidence that any of the witnesses to the Crucifixion even knew what Jesus looked like. The apostles and the other followers had scattered and were in hiding when the Roman soldiers came looking for Jesus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Point two..how and when was Jesus raised up to heaven? Is it possible to enter heaven before death as a physical being? It is possible for a soul to exist in heaven but how so a physical form where is the proof, witnesses, historical or archaeological that this happened? Apart from the small information found in the Quran.
It is most probable Jesus was raised up to heaven before the person the Romans claimed to have been Jesus was even arrested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Point three... If the resurrection never happened..what happened after? Who was placed in the tomb? And where did they disappear to. the Quran does not answer this. Is it enough to say they crucified him not..without offering any proof of the alternative as fact? I don't believe it is.
The tomb was never identified except in the Bible. there is no evidence that the tomb pointed out by the tour guides as Jesus's tomb was the actual tomb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Point four.. Well billions believe the facts that support the event happened, the reasons why it happened. This truth as lasted two thousand years and will no doubt exist long into the future..for Gods truth is eternal.
The Greek myths existed for thousand of years before Jesus and continue to Exist retold in the Greek version of Jesus and billions of people continue to believe in Apollo now renamed Jesus.The entire NT is Greek mythology rewritten and misusing the life of the Prophet Jesus(PBUH)

Number of believers does not denote proof. today there are probably millions of people who believe the Loch Ness monster exists, but there is no physical evidence of Nessie.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post

YouTube


Just found out how to post you tubes...how easy was that!!!
Nothing there that would convince a Muslim. The video appears to be more aimed at Christians to keep them from investigating Islam. The fact it contains instrument Music will keep most Muslims from looking at it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:10 PM
 
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For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40
Prophet Jonah peace be upon him was alive when he was swallowed by the Whale
and he was alive inside the Whale and he was alive when he got out of the Whale

and Prophet Jesus peace be upon him according to the above verse said that he would be like Jonah that means he did not die
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:19 AM
 
762 posts, read 990,088 times
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Quote:
It is most probable Jesus was raised up to heaven before the person the Romans claimed to have been Jesus was even arrested.
Saying something is probable is not really evidence is it now just because there is no DNA evidence that Christ was crucified by the Romans equally there is nothing to say he was not. However there is far more evidence to support the claim that it did happen rather than not.

The only claim that Jesus was raised up to heaven alive ..before the crucifixion is in the Quran. Of course to accept this you first have to believe the Quran is what it claims direct word from God. The only evidence for this claim is within the Quran itself. It's largely down to faith. Whereas the Quran's viewpoint calls somewhat for blind faith, the Bible at least has some historical and archeological documentation that supports the Bibles claim that the crucifixion did happen. Obviously faith comes into it also

I don't see it as slightly ridiculous..( no offence meant ) to claim the whole of the new testament is based on Greek mythology. In fact muslims would be on very shaky ground with claims such as this, given the fact that many of their practices in Islam are largely based on the pagan rites of Arabia at the time.

Many religions did adopt aspects of pagan traditions into its practice, it was seen as one way of bringing unbelievers to God, better way I think than the ..worship as I do or die approach.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:20 AM
 
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Shame about the video... My first attempt..I rather liked the music. I personally don't know of any muslims in my acquaintance that hold such an aversion to music.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:25 AM
 
762 posts, read 990,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40
Prophet Jonah peace be upon him was alive when he was swallowed by the Whale
and he was alive inside the Whale and he was alive when he got out of the Whale

and Prophet Jesus peace be upon him according to the above verse said that he would be like Jonah that means he did not die
Don't see the relevance of this analogy. Sorry.

How that shows that Jesus did not die..I'm sure I can't see it. But take it that he did not die...what happened next. Do you think that after the fake Jesus was removed from the cross for burial no one noticed the switch.

But the biggest no no for me in the whole idea of a duplicate Jesus..is the fact this makes God out to be a deceiver and a cheat. I cannot attribute characteristics like this to the God I know and love and hold in the highest esteem.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,317,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Shame about the video... My first attempt..I rather liked the music. I personally don't know of any muslims in my acquaintance that hold such an aversion to music.
It isn't so much an aversion. The restrictions are more as to music instruments. There is universal agreement that the Duff and Drums are permitted. It is also widely agreed that there should be no Music Instruments in Nasheeds.

The 2 extremes will be found when looking at Sufi and Salafi views. The Sufi are very musical and place no restrictions on instruments, the Salafi are against all music even singing. Most of us are somewhere in between. However, the majority would frown on any Music if there is a discussion of what is in the Qur'an
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,317,313 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Shame about the video... My first attempt..I rather liked the music. I personally don't know of any muslims in my acquaintance that hold such an aversion to music.
Belated Congrats on posting your first Youtube video.



I apologize on not congratulating you for posting the Video. that was an accomplishment and you did get it right.
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