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Where in the Qur'an is it ordered to spread Islam by force, swords or guns?
I need to know where in the Qur'an so that I too can spread it by force, swords, or guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
I can post these all day long and I am not going to waste my time doing so.
Tabari 9:69
"Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"
Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow.
You are quoting Tabari here; not the Qur'an. Do you understand the difference?
You had claimed that it is ordered in the Qur'an to spread Islam by force, swords and guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
(2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Do you understand what is fighting in the way of Allah?
Is it fighting with swords and guns to "spread" Islam or to "defend" Islam when it is attacked?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
(2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Fighting in defence is not "spreading" Islam but defending oneself and Islam when attacked. This is nothing to do with spreading Islam by force, swords and guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
(3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"[//quote]
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)"
That means it was Allah who was protecting Islam from disbelievers' attacks. Fighting order here is against the fighting (attacks) of friends of Shaitan. Again it is not spreading Islam but protecting Islam.
You will have a job finding a verse in the Qur'an that orders us to "spread Islam by force, swords and guns".
So far, you have utterly failed in backing up your false claim.
You are quoting Tabari here; not the Qur'an. Do you understand the difference?
You had claimed that it is ordered in the Qur'an to spread Islam by force, swords and guns.
Do you understand what is fighting in the way of Allah?
Is it fighting with swords and guns to "spread" Islam or to "defend" Islam when it is attacked?
Fighting in defence is not "spreading" Islam but defending oneself and Islam when attacked. This is nothing to do with spreading Islam by force, swords and guns.
That means it was Allah who was protecting Islam from disbelievers' attacks. Fighting order here is against the fighting (attacks) of friends of Shaitan. Again it is not spreading Islam but protecting Islam.
You will have a job finding a verse in the Qur'an that orders us to "spread Islam by force, swords and guns".
So far, you have utterly failed in backing up your false claim.
Don't move goalposts, you made the claims.
Taburi is a bio of Muhammed.
There was no war, Muhammed was the aggressor all the time
You are quoting Tabari here; not the Qur'an. Do you understand the difference?
You had claimed that it is ordered in the Qur'an to spread Islam by force, swords and guns.
Do you understand what is fighting in the way of Allah?
Is it fighting with swords and guns to "spread" Islam or to "defend" Islam when it is attacked?
Fighting in defence is not "spreading" Islam but defending oneself and Islam when attacked. This is nothing to do with spreading Islam by force, swords and guns.
That means it was Allah who was protecting Islam from disbelievers' attacks. Fighting order here is against the fighting (attacks) of friends of Shaitan. Again it is not spreading Islam but protecting Islam.
You will have a job finding a verse in the Qur'an that orders us to "spread Islam by force, swords and guns".
So far, you have utterly failed in backing up your false claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
Don't move goalposts, you made the claims.
It is you who are trying to move the goalposts. I didn't claim that it is ordered "in the Qur'an" to spread Islam by force, swords and guns; you did. And now you can't back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
Taburi is a bio of Muhammed.
Taburi or Tabari is not the Qur'an. You had made the claim about the Qur'an. Stick to it instead of looking for a straw to hang on to. I will keep reminding you about your claim here no matter how many times you move the goalposts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
There was no war, Muhammed was the aggressor all the time
Each war was on Muhammad. It was started by his enemies. His enemies were the aggressors. But Muhammad is not the subject here but Islam being ordered in the Qur'an to be spread by force, swords and guns. Where in the Qur'an is the question!!!
The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)
The Qur'an itself is vague and you need the sunnah to understand it
Without the sunnah a fast talking cleric can change a verse from a battle to a prayer to a tuna fish sandwich.
The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)
Even here, the Qur'an isn't ordering to spread Islam by force, swords and guns. You won't find any verse in the Qur'an that orders us to spread Islam by force, swords and guns.
The above quoted half verse that does not have [Christians] in it, was revealed near the end of the revelation of the Qur'an. By then, those polytheists of Makkah had already killed Muslims, expelled them from their homes and forced them to migrate to Yasrib to save their lives, waged three wars on Muslims in Madina (Yasrib) and had even broken a ten year peace treaty with Muslims.
FYI, no polytheist was killed/slayed in Makkah after this verse was revealed. Those polytheists had given up fighting and killing Muslims and Muslims had forgiven them. But you won't know all this as you read these verses on Islam hating sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
The Qur'an itself is vague and you need the sunnah to understand it
It won't be vague if it had ordered us to spread Islam by force, swords and guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo
Without the sunnah a fast talking cleric can change a verse from a battle to a prayer to a tuna fish sandwich.
Is that how the crafty Islam haters change a verse about fighting those who fight us to spreading Islam by force, swords and guns?
I can see that you are having BIG trouble finding a verse in which is order to spread Islam by force, swords and guns. I will help you find one or two:
[8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
[8.61] And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Now that is an order to fight with "force" and "horses" against the enemy who attacks us. But if the enemy inclines to peace then we too must incline to peace. The order couldn't be more clear, could it?
In Islam, we can't initiate a war/fighting. But fighting is allowed in defence. If the attacker inclines to peace, there should be no more fighting just as it was in Makkah after the verse 9:5 (you quoted above) was revealed.
I just hope that you won't waste your time in looking for that "order" in the Qur'an that says, "spread Islam by force, swords and guns".
12-01-2019, 01:43 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Does not matter if the Quran ordered it (which is highly debated) or not - the question was:
Does not matter if the Quran ordered it (which is highly debated) or not - the question was:
Did islam spread by force, swords or guns?
The answer is YES!
History does not lie!
History can't speak truth or tell lie. It is only written.
The best history and the oldest history about Islam is the Qur'an. The rest of history books came much later. If the Qur'an doesn't command spreading of Islam by force, swords or guns then it wasn't spread by force, swords or guns.
If someone forced me to accept Paganism, do you think I will accept it for the rest of my life? I will give it up at the very first opportunity I have. Personally, I don't believe that we can spread Islam by force, swords or guns.
Islam has spread in Europe rapidly during the last 50 years. Did it spread by force, swords or guns?
12-01-2019, 03:28 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
History can't speak truth or tell lie. It is only written.
The best history and the oldest history about Islam is the Qur'an. The rest of history books came much later. If the Qur'an doesn't command spreading of Islam by force, swords or guns then it wasn't spread by force, swords or guns.
If someone forced me to accept Paganism, do you think I will accept it for the rest of my life? I will give it up at the very first opportunity I have. Personally, I don't believe that we can spread Islam by force, swords or guns.
Islam has spread in Europe rapidly during the last 50 years. Did it spread by force, swords or guns?
I'll take contemporaneous accounts both Islamic and otherwise as more reliable than a Quran, of which you admit an original does not exist, which was not written as History.
Just because it is not spreading by force in Europe does not mean that it did not once do so. Come on stop the games.
I'll take contemporaneous accounts both Islamic and otherwise as more reliable than a Quran, of which you admit an original does not exist, which was not written as History.
The original written Qur'an does not exist and could not have existed for over 14 centuries. It exists in memory only now as has been for the past 14 centuries.
The Qur'an is the best history as to how it started with one man and kept spreading for the next 22 years. The contemporaneous accounts cannot contradict the Qur'an. The rest is not necessarily history. Islam begins with the Qur'an and will end with the Qur'an. Anything outside the Qur'an is not Islam nor is basis for Islam as known to the outside world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
Just because it is not spreading by force in Europe does not mean that it did not once do so. Come on stop the games.
Well, if you can't understand the example of Europe, right in front of you, and want to stick to your original imagination, there is nothing I can do to help you.
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