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Old 02-03-2013, 07:38 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Judging from the link, it seems Mongol sophistication came from Buddhism, not from Islam.

Poland never was Muslim, actually the Poles helped the Austrians in fighting the Tartars and keeping Islam out of Europe.
Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim architecture is mainly based on ancient Persian stuff, maybe Islamic geometry even dates back to mandalas from the Indian subcontinent. Just like the so called Arabic numbers are of Indian origin...
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Judging from the link, it seems Mongol sophistication came from Buddhism, not from Islam.

Poland never was Muslim, actually the Poles helped the Austrians in fighting the Tartars and keeping Islam out of Europe.
Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim architecture is mainly based on ancient Persian stuff, maybe Islamic geometry even dates back to mandalas from the Indian subcontinent. Just like the so called Arabic numbers are of Indian origin...
Yes the country was majority Non-Muslim. But a large bit of the Polish Military was Muslim. Muslims were in the Lithuanian/Poland Commonwealth before the Ottoman Turks reached Vienna and a good bit of the Polish army that debeated the Ottomans was Lietuva Lipkas (Lithuanian Tatars)

Quote:
In the year 1672, the Tatar subjects rose up in open rebellion against the Commonwealth. This was the widely remembered Lipka Rebellion. Thanks to the efforts of King Jan III Sobieski, who was held in great esteem by the Tatar soldiers, many of the Lipkas seeking asylum and service in the Turkish army returned to his command and participated in the struggles with the Ottoman Empire up to the Treaty of Karlowitz in 1699, including the Battle of Vienna (1683) that was to turn the tide of Islamic expansion into Europe and mark the beginning of the end for the Ottoman Empire.

Beginning in the late 18th and throughout the 19th century the Lipkas became successively more and more Polonized. The upper and middle classes in particular adopted Polish language and customs (although they kept Islam as their religion), while the lower ranks became Ruthenized. At the same time, the Tatars held the Lithuanian Grand Duke Vytautas (Wattad, in Tatar or "defender of Muslims in non Muslim lands"), who encouraged and supported their settlement during the 15th century, in great esteem, including him in many legends, prayers and their folklore.[3]

The Lithuanian Tatars comprised four social groups, which in the territories of the Commonwealth, and particularly in Lithuania, reflected the social organisation of the Golden Horde. The Tartar aristocracy was recognised as such in Lithuania, and subsequently in the Commonwealth, upon presentation of letters of patent issued by the Golden Horde.
The status of Tatar and Lithuanian princes was handled differently. As the Commonwealth did not grant any new princely titles, those who aspired to such titles had their princely titles recognised only if they were related to the reigning house of the Golden Horde. This group of the Tatar aristocracy was the least numerous. Recognition required in every single case the joint decision of the king and the parliament of the Commonwealth.
For sources Please read these links. LINK LINK LINK
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Who really cares which religion some soldiers had. What matters is that Poland always had its superior European culture and civilization, it never was like Spain for instance. I guess Spain and Portugal would also be more advanced these days if they had not lost centuries because of the presence of Islam there.
Muslims were always good at war, that is how they got everywhere. Islam is the religion of destruction in my view.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Who really cares which religion some soldiers had. What matters is that Poland always had its superior European culture and civilization, it never was like Spain for instance. I guess Spain and Portugal would also be more advanced these days if they had not lost centuries because of the presence of Islam there.
Muslims were always good at war, that is how they got everywhere. Islam is the religion of destruction in my view.
That is your view and I appreciate reading your views and try to understand them.

I kind of disagree with the view that Islam/Muslims are good at war. All of Islam has never been organized with a central leader except for it's very early History and it was completely on the Arabian peninsula.

The concept of spreading by the sword does not seem logical to me. In every nation where Islam had become dominate, there are no invading foreigners there. The Indonesians and Malay were not occupied by Muslims but the people became Muslim. The North African Nations were introduced to Islam by nomadic traders. The Arab world did not expand much beyond the Arabian Peninsula. The Arab people are the small minority in Islam. Less than 10% of the world's Muslims are Arab and even less speak Arabic as a spoken Language. It is difficult to get Muslims in nearby Mosques to cooperate much less unite as an aggressive invading army.

We do not pay tribute to, nor support any Central leader or Nation. There are 49 Muslim Nations in the World. Each very individual and quite separate from the others. I can not think of any 2 Muslim nations that support each other, Much less would unite to conquer a non-Muslim nation.

The Western world believes we want to destroy Israel. How, many Muslim nations do you see united in any type of military effort against Israel? Even during the 6 day war no Arab Nation came to help Egypt. Not Saudi, Not Iraq, Not Jordan, Not Lebanon, Nor Syria, not Yemen etc etc--Nada, Neicht, Nothing

Yes, we believe Islam will conquer the world. But it will not be a conquest by force. The world will become 100% Muslim because the people them self will choose Islam. We do not expect that to happen until the coming of the Mehdi, the Return of Jesus and the destruction of the anti-Christ. Not the result of us forming a huge army and conquering every Nation. Allaah(swt) will conquer the hearts of all people and they will come to Islam out of love.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:49 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,463 posts, read 19,332,544 times
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You are Muslim?! That explains certain sources
Well, the Muslims were certainly not invited to India, nor to Spain or Portugal.

You really think the whole world will become Muslim? Certainly not as long as I am alive, I would rather commit suicide Islam preys on people's weakness and inferiority complex (hence its success in black Africa and among AA's), thus it can never touch people like me. That is also why it will never become successful in most parts of the world. The future of the world is atheism. About 200 years from now Islam and all other religions of that sort will largely have been replaced by atheism or at least agnosticism. Conventional religions will be viewed as a stone-age thing of the past among those who will lead the world...
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
You are Muslim?! That explains certain sources
Well, the Muslims were certainly not invited to India, nor to Spain or Portugal.

You really think the whole world will become Muslim? Certainly not as long as I am alive, I would rather commit suicide Islam preys on people's weakness and inferiority complex (hence its success in black Africa and among AA's), thus it can never touch people like me. That is also why it will never become successful in most parts of the world. The future of the world is atheism. About 200 years from now Islam and all other religions of that sort will largely have been replaced by atheism or at least agnosticism. Conventional religions will be viewed as a stone-age thing of the past among those who will lead the world...
I actually agree with you that before the end days atheism will replace nearly all, if not all religions. That is Prophecized in the ahadith.

It is also Prophecised that the Kabbah in Mecca will be destroyed and material wealth will become so widespread it will be impossible to find anyone to give charity to.

If you are curious, what we believe are some of the signs that will happen before the entire world accepts Islam
LINK

Islam has had very little impact in Africa except for the Northern coastal Nations. The southern Part and the internal nations have been influenced mostly by Christianity and some very Bizarre Christian Cults are forming. The Strongest and most aggressive being the "Lord's Resistance Army" LINK

The world will not become all Muslim until after the return of Jesus(as) and the arrival of the Mehdi. some other things thare are Prophecized to occur before that such as the Jews will divide into 71 sects but only one sect will reach heaven. the Christians will divide into 72 but only one will reach Heaven and the Muslims will divide into 73 but only one sect will reach heaven the numbers 71, 72 and 73 are not actual numbers. The words translated into those numbers also have metaphorical meanings. 71 denoting many, 72 denoting even more and 73 meaning the most.

The AA in the USA often join the NOI (Nation of Islam), Probably because of the huge prison ministry they carry on. . the Members do call themselves Muslim but they are not accepted by us and are not permitted to enter Mecca or Madinah the 2 cities only Muslims may enter. To enter they have to say the Shahadah. If they do so they are acknowledging Muhammad is the final Prophet and not Elijah Poole who they believe was. Although that seems to be changing as it seems that today they believe Elijah Poole was the Mehdi and Louis Farrakhan is the last messenger. Many NOI do denounce the NOI and do say the shahaddah and accept Islam. Usually when they discover that as NOI they can not enter Meccah and do the HAJJ
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:16 PM
 
3,764 posts, read 3,808,481 times
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Originally Posted by PsychDoc View Post
Prior to 1979 Iran was a secular, modern, thriving country. Then the revolution happened and Islamic nuts took over. The marriage age of women was decreased from 16 to 9 (legalized pedophilia) and the installation of Sharia Law legalized the execution of homosexuals and women accused of adultery (often by public stoning). Music and alcohol was illegalized and the government executed tens of thousands of civilians in the coming years.

Nice video on pre-Islamic Iran:

Iran Before 1979 - YouTube
Maybe you should learn the history of exactly HOW and WHY conservative Islam took over Iran and the Middle East, more important events happened before 1979:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...article10.html

New York Times Special Report: The C.I.A. in Iran

If the US and UK never overthrew a democratic Iran for oil at the request of BP, conservative Islam most likely would have never taken hold in the Mid East. Operation Ajax is probably one of the biggest blunders in American history, the severe consequences of which still reverberate today. Before the US overthrew Iran's government, Iran had more women in colleges and universities per capita than even the United States.


Today, there are still Iranians alive that lived through the overthrow of their government and the SAVAK torture squads that terrorized the population run by a puppet Shah government installed by the US. They have a profound hatred for the West, and most likely rightfully so.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,374 posts, read 24,132,268 times
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
...Even during the 6 day war no Arab Nation came to help Egypt. Not Saudi, Not Iraq, Not Jordan, Not Lebanon, Nor Syria, not Yemen etc etc--Nada, Neicht, Nothing

....
Rewriting history? What were Jordan, Syria and Iraqi forces actually doing then in Israels eastern border?


Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,297,298 times
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Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Rewriting history? What were Jordan, Syria and Iraqi forces actually doing then in Israels eastern border?


Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I will not deny it is probable my memory is faulty. Going by my Memory of the time. All I recall the media ever speaking of was the UAR. I recalled that the conflict was between The UAR and Israel. My faulty memory was that UAR was the official name for Egypt at the time.

From the Link you Provided.

Quote:
The Six-Day War (Hebrew: מלחמת ששת הימים, Milhemet Sheshet Ha Yamim; Arabic: النكسة, an-Naksah, "The Setback," or حرب 1967, Ḥarb 1967, "War of 1967"), also known as the June War, 1967 Arab-Israeli War, or Third Arab-Israeli War, was fought between June 5 and 10, 1967, by Israel and the neighboring states of Egypt (known at the time as the United Arab Republic), Jordan, and Syria.

The war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields after a period of high tension that included an Israeli raid into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank,[11][12] Israeli initiated aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[13] Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the border followed by Israeli response against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency (initiated by Israel) into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border[14] and culminating in Egypt blocking the Straits of Tiran.[15] and ordering of the evacuation from the Sinai Peninsula of the U.N. buffer force.
It does not appear. Jordan and Syria took a very active role.

It is probable you and I will look at the conflict through different ends of the Telescope.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,297,298 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Judging from the link, it seems Mongol sophistication came from Buddhism, not from Islam.
Those that remained in the Country of Mongolia did accept Buddhism and never became Muslim, they also remained primitive, but in Mongolia, Buddhism did make them more peaceful..

The Mongols that became the "Golden Horde of the Tatars" and extended througout Western Asian, into India and the Mideast are the ones who eventually accepted Islam. Conquring and destoying until they conqured the Muslim Nations. After conquring the Muslim world they accepted Islam and stopped their destruction. The Huge Mughal (Mongol) Empire that conqured India, was not Islam invading India, it was the barbaric Mongols. The Mongols did not embrace Islam until after they had conquered India. that was how Islam came to India. It was not a bunch of fanatical Camel riders riding into India. swinging swords and lopping off the heads of any who refused to convert.
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