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Old 04-04-2018, 02:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
You are most kind .

Well...there are a couple of things that "hit" me (for lack of a better word):

1) Area newspapers speak to religious events that occur in our community. Among outreach efforts, are Moslem's who host dinners at their mosques, as an introduction to their non-Moslem neighbors. This approach makes sense, is most hospitable, and appreciated. This I understand.

What I don't understand are "interfaith" meetings, in which Moslem's participate. In this I do not "fault" participating Moslem's; it's that I do not understand.

What is it that I do not understand?
Muslims are human beings first and Muslims second because of what they are supposed to do on earth living among other humans. We can have interfaith meetings with other humans as long as it is all peaceful. This is the right approach and teaching through the Qur'an.

[60.8] God does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice.

[60.9] God only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.


We can be friendly with all humans who have not waged war on us because of our religion. This includes those peaceful people of other religions and peaceful people of no religion. We can be on the same platform as humans and plan together as to how to help other peaceful and needy human beings. This is done in the interests of humanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
In my casual observance of Moslem's, I have found the overwhelming majority to be devout and faithful to their calling. But the people with whom they share their platform in these interfaith dialogues - in this I speak to those who call themselves "Christian" or "Jewish," most often, the aforementioned parties are seen as holding positions that run contrary to the Torah, or the Bible. Therefore, I do not understand why devout Moslem's would share their (speaking) platform with so-called Christians or Jews who are not devout. In this I do not fault Moslem's who participate; it's just that I don't understand.
You will understand it once you look at Muslims as "humans". Humans should get on with other humans in the best interests of humanity.

I was born in an entirely Muslim people area. I had never come across any non-Muslim until I migrated to the UK. Now if I as Muslim wasn't supposed to interact with non-Muslims then I shouldn't have moved to the UK. Moving here and interacting with non-Muslims didn't make me lose my faith but instead made me a better human. It also helped me see a side of my faith that I could not have seen if I had stayed with only Muslims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
The second reason why I have an interest in Islam, is simply owed to the fact that my encounters with Moslem's have intrigued me. Unfortunately, I have not had a close relationship with a practicing Moslem, but I have had co-workers and acquaintanceships with Moslems, and I have been most taken by their dedication and faithfulness. Plus...I know this sounds simplistic - but the Moslems that I have known have treated me well; with kindness and hospitality. Their treatment of me makes me want to know more about their (your) faith. I respect their dedication to Allah, and I appreciate the kindnesses they've shown me. As a result, I want to learn more about their faith - hence this thread .
No Muslim can be a good Muslim unless he is a good human being. A good human will do good deeds and so should a good Muslim. Our salvation rests on what we do in this life as good humans and good Muslims. I have no problem with any non-Muslim human as long as he is peaceful.

Purpose of human creation included being good human.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:10 AM
 
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I read somewhere in this thread that we are not to force (compel) anyone to accept our faith. Actually none is supposed to compel the other to accept any faith. This is not the way people should come into any faith. This is why the verse 2:256 says "no compulsion in religion". No compulsion both ways. Neither we can compel others nor others can compel us to change religion.

Learning about another religion does not compel anyone to join that religion. It should be done entirely voluntarily or not at all.

I have read the so-called five books of Moses and the four gospels and I still refer with them every now and then when I want to clarify something. This hasn't made me either a Jew or a Christian. What it has done is made me understand my own religion better. It has given me better insight into my own religion and how I should conduct myself in this life.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL View Post
Greetings to all!

I am a Christian, and I have a very sincere question to ask:

In reading through other threads, I have become painfully aware of the fact that the Qur'an states, in no uncertain terms, that God, Allah, does not have a Son named Jesus.

I am therefore confused by attempts by some in the Muslim community, to participate with those in the Christian community, in an ecumenical fashion, and in some cases, enjoining, the two religions (Chrislam).

This thread is not intended to point fingers or accuse. It simply seems to me that the Bible, and the Qur'an, state very different things; our God's are fundamentally different.

And if this is so, should there not a clear distinction, and separation, between both religions?

After reading the above query, one might ask: If you believe that both religions are fundamentally different, why do Christians not recognize the differences between the two, as some seek to incorporate elements of Islam into Christianity? To this I would answer: the majority of Christians are Biblically illiterate - hence they behave in accordance with their lack of knowledge.

Yet I do not take Moslems as illiterate, but as learned, in regarding matters of their faith.

Anyone care to comment?

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

NO. Absolutely not. A million times no. We are called to love, even those who believe differently than we do. Muslims are our neighbors. We are to love our neighbors unconditionally. Full Stop. That means standing alongside them, arm in arm, when they are treated unfairly.

Also, it wouldn't kill you to ask to come to one of their services. You might even learn something about them (like to call them 'Muslim' and not 'Moslem'). Sitting down with an Imam was the most amazing experiences. Not to talk, but to listen. And learn.

And yes, we do worship the same God.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,431 posts, read 1,374,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I read somewhere in this thread that we are not to force (compel) anyone to accept our faith. Actually none is supposed to compel the other to accept any faith. This is not the way people should come into any faith. This is why the verse 2:256 says "no compulsion in religion". No compulsion both ways. Neither we can compel others nor others can compel us to change religion.

Learning about another religion does not compel anyone to join that religion. It should be done entirely voluntarily or not at all.

I have read the so-called five books of Moses and the four gospels and I still refer with them every now and then when I want to clarify something. This hasn't made me either a Jew or a Christian. What it has done is made me understand my own religion better. It has given me better insight into my own religion and how I should conduct myself in this life.
That's an awesome post, Khalif.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
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Get to know, and befriend someone who is a Muslim, and you will find that the same God that is in you, is waiting to be encountered in them.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
NO. Absolutely not. A million times no. We are called to love, even those who believe differently than we do. Muslims are our neighbors. We are to love our neighbors unconditionally. Full Stop. That means standing alongside them, arm in arm, when they are treated unfairly.

Also, it wouldn't kill you to ask to come to one of their services. You might even learn something about them (like to call them 'Muslim' and not 'Moslem'). Sitting down with an Imam was the most amazing experiences. Not to talk, but to listen. And learn.

And yes, we do worship the same God.
That may just be a giveaway to a person's age. When I was growing up and we learned in elementary school about Islam and the Middle East (it wasn't political), "Moslems" was the term used. Only when I grew up and actually got to know Muslims did I learn that the term and the pronunciation were different.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
Get to know, and befriend someone who is a Muslim, and you will find that the same God that is in you, is waiting to be encountered in them.
I work for a Muslim family. They are great people, great employers, well-respected, and run their business with integrity. And funny as all get-out, too.

Two weeks ago I went with them to a dinner given by the alumni of the engineering school in Karachi. They gave out scholarships to young engineering students.

Everyone who got up to speak started out with the Arabic phrase (I am not sure how it is said and spelled exactly) that more or less means "Peace be with you". That's what we Episcopalians say, too. We're not that different.

I was one of about 8 people out of 100 who was not Pakistani or American of Pakistani origin, which was obvious to everyone else. They were all so nice, pointing out what the different foods were while we were on the buffet line. My coworker and I, who ran out of the WTC together on 9/11, were giggling over the whole scenario that some people we know would think that these people are who we ran away from that day.

But, they're not. We ran from terrorism, and that wasn't what was going on here. It was a bunch of people who are building things in the US and taking their place in American society. One of the women engineers, in traditional Paki dress and wearing a hijab centered her speech around the fact although some of the scholarship recipients were young women, we need to emphasize math and physics more to our daughters and steer them toward the engineering disciplines. I wished more people could have seen this and understood that what they fear is cultural, not Islam.
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Old 04-08-2018, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
And yes, we do worship the same God.
Absolutely correct!

Jews know it, Christians know it (even GWB confirmed it), and Muslims know it. We all worship the same God that Abraham worshiped, Isaac worshiped, Jacob worshiped, Joseph worshiped, Moses worshiped and Jesus worshiped.

The same God is worshiped in synagogues, churches and mosques.

[Qur'an 22.40] Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is God. And had there not been God's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which God's name is much remembered; and surely God will help him who helps His cause; most surely God is Strong, Mighty.
الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِنْ دِيَارِهِمْ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ إِلَّا أَنْ يَقُولُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَاتٌ وَمَسَاجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا ۗ وَلَيَنْصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ


It is confirmed even in the Qur'an that God of Muslims is the same God as God of Christians and Jews (the followers of previous revelations before the Qur'an).

[Qur'an 29.46] And do not dispute with the followers of the Book (followers of previous revelations) except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.
وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ ۖ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَٰهُنَا وَإِلَٰهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:02 PM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,049,093 times
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That may just be a giveaway to a person's age. When I was growing up and we learned in elementary school about Islam and the Middle East (it wasn't political), "Moslems" was the term used. Only when I grew up and actually got to know Muslims did I learn that the term and the pronunciation were different.
The word "Muslims" is used in English here in UK. In Arabic, the word is "muslimeen" or "muslimun" (depending on grammar in the sentence). There is no capital M in the Arabic language.

In Iran, India and Pakistan, the word used is "musliman" (for Muslim). The origin of the singular word "musliman" comes from what God had said to Abraham (Qur'an 3:67) to be, "musliman" ("submitter"), by obeying God. Therefore, anyone who submits to God by obeying commands from God, keeping the commandments, is in reality and in Arabic term a "musliman" or "Muslim" in English language.
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Old 04-08-2018, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,444 posts, read 54,858,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The word "Muslims" is used in English here in UK. In Arabic, the word is "muslimeen" or "muslimun" (depending on grammar in the sentence). There is no capital M in the Arabic language.

In Iran, India and Pakistan, the word used is "musliman" (for Muslim). The origin of the singular word "musliman" comes from what God had said to Abraham (Qur'an 3:67) to be, "musliman" ("submitter"), by obeying God. Therefore, anyone who submits to God by obeying commands from God, keeping the commandments, is in reality and in Arabic term a "musliman" or "Muslim" in English language.
"Muslim" what is used here in the USA, as well. My point was that when I was growing up back in the 60s, the word "Moslem" was how it was spelled and pronounced. Of course, we didn't actually KNOW any then. Now where I live (New Jersey) there is a significant Muslim population as well as where I work (New York City).

I use Muslim now, as do most people.

Thank you for the info about the word origin, though. I didn't know that.
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