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Old 05-10-2013, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Essex, VT.
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When they say 'But if they repent, and make prayer and pay the Zhakat'...they are referring to praying to Allah. So surely a time is set when a muslim is ordered to kill non believers?.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,122,407 times
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Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
people kill people FACT..sad but true. What I find distasteful is when it is done in Gods name. Kill and maim as you will whoever, wherever ..but please don't attribute the actions to God.
That is a very good point. We humans kill each other to help us survive, and that is usually acceptable in my opinion. For example, I think our dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was wonderful because I think it helped to save American lives.

However, I think it is wrong to kill others just because a so-called holy book says you should do it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
939 posts, read 1,264,693 times
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It is forbidden to kill innocent people in Islam.

However this statement is meaningless without a definition of who qualifies as an innocent person.

Correct me if I am wrong, but many Muslims believe that the U.S., UK, and some other Western countries are at war with Islam or at least with pious communities of Muslims, and equate civilian deaths at the hands of U.S. soldiers as morally equivalent to 9/11. Of course, not all Muslims believe as such, but let's say that you have a hypothetical country that has openly declared war on Islam.

Are citizens of a state that is at war with Islam or with the Muslim ummah considered innocent people? What about the family members of people in a military force fighting Islam? What about people who are recipients of dawah (invitation to Islam) yet still choose to reject Islam and stay with shirk (idolatry and polytheism)?
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
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Doesn't the verse fall upon when the "forbidden months have passed"?
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,323,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Doesn't the verse fall upon when the "forbidden months have passed"?
It has to be understood that Surat 9 was very specific as a warning to the idolaters that prevented the Muslims from performing Hajj.

The Surat is in 3 parts. It is a warning to the idolaters that were keeping the Muslims from praying in Mecca. It was a lesson of Mercy and far treatment to the Muslims and to all people it was a lesson about the importance of repentance. For the most part it was a warning to the Idolaters that because they failed to keep their part of the treaty the Muslims would consider the treaty void after the sacred monts. (Which take a full year to complete.) After then it would be considered a state of war existed and the idolaters living in Mecca would be considered the enemy if they stayed in Mecca. The conflict ended without bloodshed

The Surah is well summed up in the last few lines.

9:127 Whenever there cometh down a Sura, they look at each other, (saying), "Doth anyone see you?" Then they turn aside: Allah hath turned their hearts (from the light); for they are a people that understand not.
Wa-itha ma onzilat sooratunnathara baAAduhum ila baAAdinhal yarakum min ahadin thumma insarafoo sarafaAllahu quloobahum bi-annahum qawmun la yafqahoona

9:128 Now hath come unto you an Apostle from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.
Laqad jaakum rasoolun min anfusikumAAazeezun AAalayhi ma AAanittum hareesunAAalaykum bialmu/mineena raoofun raheemun

9:129 But if they turn away, Say: "Allah sufficeth me: there is no god but He: On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!"
Fa-in tawallaw faqul hasbiya Allahula ilaha illa huwa AAalayhi tawakkaltuwahuwa rabbu alAAarshi alAAatheemi
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:16 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,871,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post
It is forbidden to kill innocent people in Islam.

However this statement is meaningless without a definition of who qualifies as an innocent person.

Correct me if I am wrong, but many Muslims believe that the U.S., UK, and some other Western countries are at war with Islam or at least with pious communities of Muslims, and equate civilian deaths at the hands of U.S. soldiers as morally equivalent to 9/11. Of course, not all Muslims believe as such, but let's say that you have a hypothetical country that has openly declared war on Islam.

Are citizens of a state that is at war with Islam or with the Muslim ummah considered innocent people? What about the family members of people in a military force fighting Islam? What about people who are recipients of dawah (invitation to Islam) yet still choose to reject Islam and stay with shirk (idolatry and polytheism)?
No.

Christians and Jews are "people of the book." The fact that there may be holy war, means nothing in light of that. A person who is not acting against another (and who believes at least somewhat as another does), is by definition innocent. Only those who are soldiers standing against one, are those to be fought and killed.

I dislike Islam. It is a religion without boundaries. As in, if I wanna quietly worship idols, so long as I do not tell you to do the same, this should be fine with you. But it generally isn't, under Islam.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,323,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
No.

Christians and Jews are "people of the book." The fact that there may be holy war, means nothing in light of that. A person who is not acting against another (and who believes at least somewhat as another does), is by definition innocent. Only those who are soldiers standing against one, are those to be fought and killed.

I dislike Islam. It is a religion without boundaries. As in, if I wanna quietly worship idols, so long as I do not tell you to do the same, this should be fine with you. But it generally isn't, under Islam.
I believe you will find that other beliefs are well tolerated. The problems arise when people of other faiths proselytize their beliefs in Muslim majority nations. Problems arise when one attempts to lead Muslims away from Islam.
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