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Old 04-28-2013, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,047 times
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Who has their original sacred scriptures? Jews, Christians or Muslims?


Which book has been preserved, Bible or Qur'an? - YouTube
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:02 AM
 
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Peace be on everyone. Allah has said uniquely about the Holy Quran:

Verily, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian. [chapter 15 : Verse 10]

No other Book has such protection. They were correct for their times but then with passage of time they were mixed with human thoughts.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:02 PM
 
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This is quite an interesting concept, it's widely accepted that as far as "original" scriptures go both the Jews and Christians accept that the "original scriptures" no longer exist..at least Christians do, I can't speak for the Jewish people. Whereas the muslims insist and set great store by the fact the the Quran remains unchanged. This claim I feel is almost impossible to prove as fact.

The question should be ...how reliable is the chain of authenticity from the original. After all, there had to be an original for there to be copies..from the Bible we have today it is about 98% or might be even higher...accuracy from the ancient copies we have to refer to, no other literary work of the time can make this claim. This takes into account variables such as linguistic differences that do not in themselves change the nature of the message.

Any book that has been penned by man can never claim to be 100% true to the original, because man not being perfect in nature will always be capable of making error. To be certain of the original meaning is not lost then more than one persons version has to be more reliable, because although each person may use their own words it has to show that the intent of the message is clear.

Promised Peace..I do not like to disappoint..but God also promised to keep the Bible safe from corruption. As I believe it's not possible for God not to keep a promise...otherwise that would make God a liar.. And that obviously is even more impossible, because as we all know God is the epitome of truth. So as I mentioned before..how can you put your trust in God who fails to keep some of his scriptures safe whilst saving others? it's not possible, as God is unchanging.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
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The person in the video is reading the Quran in English. Thus it was penned by a man and translated by a man. In order to understand the Quran one must read it and understand it in Arabic. This way there is no loss in its meaning when someone else does the translation. Jews have this same rule. The Christian bibles are all translations and there are nearly twenty different versions that mis-translate the original verses or letters. As to dating the Quran the speaker in the video continuously states first century and later on states it was 1400 years ago. So even by using his calendar of reference the Jewish bible predates the Quran by hundreds of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:15 AM
 
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Peace be on you. Hadhrat Esa (Jesus a.s.) and his disciples were of Jewish ancestry. The original words of Jesus a.s. should have been in Aramaic language. But there is no ancient Injeel (New Testament) is saved in Aramaic language. They are in Greek language. It is a huge defect and it is tried to be covered by saying that in those times language of the people had changed to Greek. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE because nations do not give up their original languages so easily. Nations treasure their languages like their heritage. For example:
i- Several Eastern European nations remained under Russians for long times but yet their own languages survived.
ii- Algeria and Morocco were under France and Spain, yet they speak Arabic.
iii- More than 2000 years after Jesus a.s. still there are Jewish people who speak Yiddish language.

Then how a little time under Italians could have changed language of Jews in the time of Jesus a.s. Italian governmet had come just nearly 40 years before Jesus a.s. It is not that long a time which would make a nation to leave their language. In addition to that, it is to be notes:

1-Historical nations do not leave their languages.

2-Jewish religion used Aramaic. It was not possible for Jews to discard their language.

3-Jews never thought themselves inferior to Italians but better. That is why they could not have left their language.

4-Jews believed they were next to get power; they were waiting for appearance of the person who would bring them kingdom. Then how could they have give up their language.

5- The books written by various authors in that era are in Aramaic or its variant. If Jews had left their language, the literature should have been in different language.

6-Ancient Injeels are in Greek language. But in the time of Jesus a.s kingdom had not split in 2 parts. Its center was still in Rome. Roman and Greek languages are different. If Italian government had affected Jews, Italian words should have been found their way into Aramaic. BUT ancient Injeels are in Greek language. It proves that Injeels were written in the time when Roman Empire had split in parts and its Eastern parts were taken by Greek Empire and Greek language had started to affect Christianity and its literature.

7-The few preserved original verses in Injeels are in Aramaic language. For example: hosana (Mathew 21.9), eli eli lema sabachthani (Mathew 27:46), rabbi (John 4.3), talitha koum (Mark 5.41)


8-Acts 2 shows that after the event of cross, Jews were still speaking Aramaic. The reference shows that till then Palestinian spoke Aramaic. When they heard foreign languages, they were surprised. Roman is mentioned. It shows Roman was not the languages of Palestine then. If whole country spoke Roman or Greek, why common people could not understand those and said speaker were intoxicated.
Thus it is clear that Jesus a.s. and disciples spoke Aramaic, not Latin or Greek. Therefore Greek or Latin Injeels are written a long time after Jesus a.s. These were written when Christianity spreaded in Italian and Greek parts of broken Roman Kingdom.


9-Jesus a.s said he did not come to change previous books but to establish them. It is written in Mathew 5:17-18

It is clear that Jesus a.s.’s original duty was to establish Jews back on Moses’ law. But current Injeel is seen canceling the Moses’s law.
The real teaching of Jesus a.s. was surely that of Moses a.s. Priests and Pharisees changed the Moses’ law. But current Injeel do not cancel these additions instead it cancels Moses law and teachings of Prophets after Moses……One part is against the other part.
It seems that disciple spoke words and later their students of their students wrote a mixture of their own thoughts.


Based on ‘Introduction to the Stuy of The Holy Quran’ (pdf) by second Ahmadiyya Khalifah in Islamic Books | Online Islamic Library - Al Islam Online



Some supporting notes:
Quote:
The language of the people of Palestine shifted from Hebrew to Aramaic sometime between 721-500 B.C. Therefore, we know that Jesus, his disciples and contemporaries spoke and wrote in Aramaic. The message of Christianity spread throughout Palestine, Syria and Mesopotamia in this Semitic tongue.
Aramaic Language: The Language of Christ


Quote:
The Original Language of the New Testament
……Jesus of Nazareth, the Man whose personality was the decisive impulse, did not speak Greek when He went about His publick work. He spoke the local idiom of His native Galilee, the language which, in the night of betrayal, betrayed His disciple Peter to be a Galilean. This language was Aramaic, a dialect akin to Hebrew but not identical with it; and, to be quite exact, it was Galilean Aramaic that our Lord spoke. In that dialect the gospel was first preached. The ordinary reader of the Bible even now hears the last echo of the original when he comes upon such words as mammon, talitha cumi, abba, or such names asBarabbas, Martha, etc., which are all of them Aramaic. Moreover, the oldest record of the words that Jesus spake, the record of His apostle Matthew, was no doubt written in Aramaic for the Palestinian Christians who spoke that language. That most primitive version of our Lord's words has perished, unfortunately, so far as the Aramaic original is concerned……
The Original Language of the New Testament


Quote:
If you study the Aramaic version, you will notice that the Greek word euangelion is derived from Aramaic words Awon-Galee-Yoon (meaning God Revelation/Spell).



This impose a great evident that the preaching of the New Testament was indeed delivered in Aramaic.
Comparative Islam: The word "Injeel", new testament, greek word


Quote:
Aramaic—a language closely related to Hebrew—may also have been taught in the synagogue schools. Not only was it the native tongue of most Jews living in Palestine, but it was also the language of the Targums, revered translations and interpretations of the Old Testament. In any event, the script of Hebrew and Aramaic are the same, so practice in reading Hebrew provides immediate entry into literacy in Aramaic.
Throughout the Gospels, Jesus demonstrates a mastery of Hebrew and Aramaic. He may also have known Greek, though the scriptures are unclear on this point. (See John 12:20–23.) The study of Greek was not an important component in the education of Jewish boys, but since so many of the sizable non-Jewish minority in Palestine spoke only Greek, many Jews, for business or communication, learned at least some Greek on their own.
Jewish Religious Education in the Meridian of Time - Ensign Oct. 1987 - ensign
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:37 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromisedPeace View Post
...
iii-More than 2000 years after Jesus a.s. still there are Jewish people who speak Yiddish language.
Then how a little time under Italians could have changed language
...
A few minor corrections. Jews spoke a version of Aramaic in the Hebrew dialect. Yiddish is a construct of modern European Jews using modern Hebrew letters to state German words mainly. Thus Yiddish only relation to the text of the past is the letters themselves as even most of the letters are pronounced incorrectly. Thus you should have states Hebrew and not Yiddish.
Second correction is that Romans were the people of the time and not Italians.

Without going into a long explanation into the written word, please read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Arabian

This is why it is most important to be able to read and understand written Arabic in order to understand the Quran and lose nothing in the personal translations. Spoken Arabic is different from Morocco to Saudi Arabia due to changes in dialect which leads to differences in interpretations of the written word.
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