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Old 06-14-2015, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,972,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsiam View Post
The Quran is like a mirror: one will interpret the book depending on one's nature and personality"--Gai Eaton

"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts
With our thoughts we make our world"---Buddha

I am, therefore we are, and you are---Ubuntu

There is much wisdom in all peoples and traditions and this wisdom elevates the human heart and makes it beautiful. If we look for beauty we find it---if we refuse to see because we hate we will not find it.

You may hate Islam and Muslims, and that is upto you...but could you allow those of us who love Islam to express the beauty, wisdom, insights, and hope that we see...?....You do not need to share it, but maybe, if you listen to us, you might also see the beauty inside our hearts?
That is very true.
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Old 06-14-2015, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,620,752 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is acceptable and appropriate to start a thread such as:

"Was Muhammad the final Prophet"

"What Religious scriptures are True?"

"Debating the Qur'an"

"Is Islam a Violent Religion"

etc in the Spirituality/Religion forum, there probably are several similar ones that are ongoing. A quick glance and you should find some here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/searc...rchid=18096835

In the specific Religious forums there are very few regular posters. For example here in the Islamic Forum there are only 4-5 regular posers, similar with the others except Christianity. Christianity has the largest number of regular posters exceeded only by the Atheist forum

You will find that most Muslims will not debate the Qur'an many, perhaps most of us believe each person should do their own searching, Islam is more personal than the following of some cleric, who might be wrong.
If it is a Rule of this forum, I will comply but that I don't see such a rule here.
Rather what I went along with what I saw and read,

In this "Islam" forum, there is this OP 'Why Islam is so violent' and others of similar tone.
Why is Islam so violent?
So it seem to contradict what you are asserting.

I had a glance over the Spirituality/Religion forum, there is only one thread related to Islam in the last five pages of threads.

My suggestions;
To keep the 'Spirituality/Religion Forum neat as with most spirituality/religious forum, I suggest let the specific section deal with anything that is specifically [or > 90%] related that specific religion. Therefore is an OP it related to 'Islam' in whatever context [>90%], then it should be dealt with within the "Islam" section. The same would apply to the other specific religion, spirituality and atheism.

The 'Spirituality/Religion Forum should be left to deal with comparative matters, i.e. where it is related to two or more religions, general religious matters, religions with no specific section.

Alternatively, there should be a main division called "Spirituality & Religion" which is just a title for that division. Therein we have a separate section for each specific religion/spirituality/atheism and one called 'Comparative Religions and Others' to cover all other matters that do not have a specific section.

IMO, it is selfish of the respective religionists to insist the specific sections are merely to discuss the pros and for sharing amongst themselves or to proselytize subliminally.

In any case, it is the Owner's call. If there are specific rules then members will have to comply.

Note the above are merely suggestions.
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Old 06-15-2015, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,972,137 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If it is a Rule of this forum, I will comply but that I don't see such a rule here.
Rather what I went along with what I saw and read,

In this "Islam" forum, there is this OP 'Why Islam is so violent' and others of similar tone.
Why is Islam so violent?
So it seem to contradict what you are asserting.

I had a glance over the Spirituality/Religion forum, there is only one thread related to Islam in the last five pages of threads.

My suggestions;
To keep the 'Spirituality/Religion Forum neat as with most spirituality/religious forum, I suggest let the specific section deal with anything that is specifically [or > 90%] related that specific religion. Therefore is an OP it related to 'Islam' in whatever context [>90%], then it should be dealt with within the "Islam" section. The same would apply to the other specific religion, spirituality and atheism.

The 'Spirituality/Religion Forum should be left to deal with comparative matters, i.e. where it is related to two or more religions, general religious matters, religions with no specific section.

Alternatively, there should be a main division called "Spirituality & Religion" which is just a title for that division. Therein we have a separate section for each specific religion/spirituality/atheism and one called 'Comparative Religions and Others' to cover all other matters that do not have a specific section.

IMO, it is selfish of the respective religionists to insist the specific sections are merely to discuss the pros and for sharing amongst themselves or to proselytize subliminally.

In any case, it is the Owner's call. If there are specific rules then members will have to comply.

Note the above are merely suggestions.
I have to admit to an error. I was not clear in my post. the Mods of the Islamic section do permit debate threads what is not permitted is the high jacking of a no debate thread and turn it into a debate. I do not moderate in this forum and like all other members I am a guest here.

It does seem both myself and you are guilty of high jacking this thread as we have taken it off-topic. the purpose of this thread appears to be to share verses not so much to discus them. We should have started a new thread to discuss any specific verse.
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:00 AM
 
2,693 posts, read 2,609,700 times
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Sura #18
56 And We send not the Messengers except as givers of glad tidings and warners.
But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby.
And they treat My Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.),
and that with which they are warned, as a jest and mockery
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,620,752 times
Reputation: 481
Pickthall 3:163. There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what ye do.

3:185. Every soul will taste of death. And ye will be paid on the Day of Resurrection only that which ye have fairly earned. Whoso is removed from the Fire and is made to enter Paradise, he indeed is triumphant. The life of this world is but comfort of illusion.
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Old 07-11-2015, 09:02 AM
 
2,693 posts, read 2,609,700 times
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Sura #21
107 And We have sent you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): not but as a mercy for the 'Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists).
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Old 07-12-2015, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,972,137 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Pickthall 3:163. There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what ye do.

3:185. Every soul will taste of death. And ye will be paid on the Day of Resurrection only that which ye have fairly earned. Whoso is removed from the Fire and is made to enter Paradise, he indeed is triumphant. The life of this world is but comfort of illusion.

It is true. Most Muslims believe life on earth is a learning experience and a trial

Our actions, and choices are a test, each of us will be rewarded for our good deeds and punished for our evil deeds. Here on Earth, or in the grave, in the hereafter or any any combination of each.
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,620,752 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is true. Most Muslims believe life on earth is a learning experience and a trial

Our actions, and choices are a test, each of us will be rewarded for our good deeds and punished for our evil deeds. Here on Earth, or in the grave, in the hereafter or any any combination of each.
You are confirming the following potential possibility;

Since Muslims regard this world as an illusion and secondary, SOME [20% = 300 million] evil prone Muslims will have no hesitation in using WMDs and exterminating mankind. The end result is all Muslims go to heaven as promised and non-Muslims will go the hell.

The implication is, the above delusions within Islam posed a real threat to the well-being of humanity in the future. This is based on the trend of real terrors, evils and violence committed by some evil prone Muslims when catalyzed by a significant amount of evil-laden verses in the holy texts.
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,972,137 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are confirming the following potential possibility;

Since Muslims regard this world as an illusion and secondary, SOME [20% = 300 million] evil prone Muslims will have no hesitation in using WMDs and exterminating mankind. The end result is all Muslims go to heaven as promised and non-Muslims will go the hell.

The implication is, the above delusions within Islam posed a real threat to the well-being of humanity in the future. This is based on the trend of real terrors, evils and violence committed by some evil prone Muslims when catalyzed by a significant amount of evil-laden verses in the holy texts.
You are confirming the following potential possibility;

It is a very long road from possibility to probability to actually happening.


One question that needs to be answered, but probably can't be is: "How many of the 20% evil prone would actually perform an act of violence?" To put too much emphasis on them can easily lead to the "Fearless Fosdick" attitude "Preserve peace by killing anyone that might not be peaceful"

Fear of potential evil will often lead to evil. Look at what we did to Iraq and Afghanistan because we were afraid they might harm us.Look at Vietnam with our attitude of "Kill em all. let God do the sorting"

Much violence and destruction is done in the name of "Eliminating a Potential Threat"

While we do believe all who die as Muslims will go heaven, we do not know who will go to Hell. We do know the Jews, Christians and Sabeeans that followed the actual teachings will reach heaven.

Quote:
The implication is, the above delusions within Islam posed a real threat to the well-being of humanity in the future. This is based on the trend of real terrors, evils and violence committed by some evil prone Muslims when catalyzed by a significant amount of evil-laden verses in the holy texts
Sounds like assumptions, not facts. Not sufficient verification that Islam condones violence.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 2,620,752 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You are confirming the following potential possibility;

It is a very long road from possibility to probability to actually happening.
In the first place, there should be ZERO possibility of such a potential within a religion, especially when it claim itself to be a Religion of Peace.
In contrast, note the main religions from the East which do not has to made pronounced claims they are religions of peace. They have ZERO possibility of such potential.

Therefore we must be wary and take note of this possibility.


Quote:
One question that needs to be answered, but probably can't be is: "How many of the 20% evil prone would actually perform an act of violence?"

To put too much emphasis on them can easily lead to the "Fearless Fosdick" attitude "Preserve peace by killing anyone that might not be peaceful"
Fear of potential evil will often lead to evil. Look at what we did to Iraq and Afghanistan because we were afraid they might harm us.Look at Vietnam with our attitude of "Kill em all. let God do the sorting"

Much violence and destruction is done in the name of "Eliminating a Potential Threat"
Note even 0.1% of Muslim is 1.5 million, and 0.01% is 150,000 .

The critical point is to note, how many people were actually brought to the war criminal court for the genocides in the Japanese War and Hitler's Holocaust - it is only a handful.

The normal pattern is always the result of a handful influencing within a small group with a charismatic leader who inspire the masses to violence. This is happening with ISIS, Boko Haram, Al-Qaeda and from the terrors they committed, it is no surprise what they will do with WMDs.

I mentioned somewhere my forte is in problem-solving techniques. From the perspective of the Philosophy of Morality/Ethics [also my forte], the main approach is to resolve evil with good. Thus we must recognize the root causes of evil and resolve them at that root level with 'good' elements.
It is very unfortunate you are not focusing on using genuine good to overcome evil.

I understand there is a possibility of SOME people using 'evil' to deal with 'potential evil.' We have to deal with this sort of evil first and ensure there is no abuse of such. Note one good example of this is SOME Muslims using the evil-laden evil in their holy texts [sanctioned by Allah] to deal with potential evil [misled and misperceived that Kuffar are a threat]
The case of Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan of the past were flooded with ignorance. At present and in the future we need to upgrade our knowledge base to understand the proximate causes rather than shooting from the hip.


Quote:
While we do believe all who die as Muslims will go heaven, we do not know who will go to Hell. We do know the Jews, Christians and Sabeeans that followed the actual teachings will reach heaven.
In this perspective, those Jews, Christians and Sabeeans who comply are regarded as "Muslims." Therefore in "this perspective" all non-Muslims as defined will go to hell according to the Quran.


Quote:
Sounds like assumptions, not facts. Not sufficient verification that Islam condones violence.
The empirical evidences of violence and evil committed by 'Muslims" around the world provide evidence of a glaring hypothesis of correlation between Islam and violence.
From the research and analysis I have done the conclusion is very obvious;
Islam-in-part - via a great % of evil laden verses in its holy text - condones violence
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