Selected Verses from the final Holy book the Quran (heaven, hell, revelation)

[juju33312]

"Think of Heaven and Hell as being 2 cities. The Qur'an describes the 2 cities and gives instructions on how to go to both. It is our choice to decide which we choose to go one."

But heaven and hell are not two cities and you give a false analogy.

Let's be honest here. YOU believe in heaven and hell (I don't) as two supernatural places created by a supernatural being that YOU believe in and I don't. YOUR ideology states that if I do not submit to what YOU believe and I don't do what YOUR god thinks I should do, then YOU think I deserve everlasting torture based on YOUR god's horrible threats and actions.

YOU are the one who sanctions violence and hate and thinks I should be subjected to extreme torture for eternity in the name of YOUR god. YOU are the one defending such violence and hate. YOUR book demands this torture and the threats against me. I have no such book or god that I submit to that demands such things. YOU DO. YOU want ME to do what YOU want or face hellfire. MY ideology rejects such things.

I can not begin to understand such an ideology as YOURS. Do you really think threats of never ending torture will convince moral people to submit to the immoral torturer?

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by juju33312

"Think of Heaven and Hell as being 2 cities. The Qur'an describes the 2 cities and gives instructions on how to go to both. It is our choice to decide which we choose to go one."

But heaven and hell are not two cities and you give a false analogy.

Let's be honest here. YOU believe in heaven and hell (I don't) as two supernatural places created by a supernatural being that YOU believe in and I don't. YOUR ideology states that if I do not submit to what YOU believe and I don't do what YOUR god thinks I should do, then YOU think I deserve everlasting torture based on YOUR god's horrible threats and actions.

YOU are the one who sanctions violence and hate and thinks I should be subjected to extreme torture for eternity in the name of YOUR god. YOU are the one defending such violence and hate. YOUR book demands this torture and the threats against me. I have no such book or god that I submit to that demands such things. YOU DO. YOU want ME to do what YOU want or face hellfire. MY ideology rejects such things.

I can not begin to understand such an ideology as YOURS. Do you really think threats of never ending torture will convince moral people to submit to the immoral torturer?

Threats never convinced me of anything. I am a person that instinctively rebels against threats and set out to prove the threats can't harm me.

I fought against Islam for at least 65 years of my life. Presenting very much the same views I see you expressing.

An anaology is not fact. It is using the known to explain the unknown. I am aware you do not believe in heaven or hell, which is why I used an analogy of cities.

I do not sanction violence and hate. I also do not believe Islam sanctions them either.

As you do not believe in the Existence of a God(swt) I do respect your disbelief. and have no desire to convince you otherwise. I am not a person who favors proselytizing. I believe each person on their own has to find reason to believe.

[juju33312]

"As you do not believe in the Existence of a God(swt) I do respect your disbelief. and have no desire to convince you otherwise. I am not a person who favors proselytizing. I believe each person on their own has to find reason to believe."

Under what conditions do you think allah is justified in performing everlasting and horrible torture and burning of people after they die?

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by juju33312

"As you do not believe in the Existence of a God(swt) I do respect your disbelief. and have no desire to convince you otherwise. I am not a person who favors proselytizing. I believe each person on their own has to find reason to believe."

Under what conditions do you think allah is justified in performing everlasting and horrible torture and burning of people after they die?

Why should I think God(swt) owes us an explanation for anything?

I do not know who will be sent to eternal punishment. I do not know the range of punishments nor the severity of the various levels of Hell.

The only thing I need know is that all people who die with the knowledge there is but one God(swt) and do their best to serve him will eventually reach heaven. It is our own responsibility to seek God(swt). God(swt) is not going to interfere in our free choice by making his existence indisputable. If we seek Him He will make the path easy. If we choose to not seek him He will make our path of disbelief easy.

I do not know who, if anyone, will ever be condemned to eternal hell.

But I do know Allaah(swt) is infinitely fair and forgiving. No person will receive any punishment they them self did not earn.

We could have been created as the Angels, in heaven and with eternal happiness. We could have been created as the lesser creatures that have no eternal soul and this short physical experience is all the life they will experience.

But we were created with free will, eternal life and the ability to select our own destiny in the hereafter.

Life is all about personal choices.

After the creation comes the issue of guidance. We are told that God guides whom he wants:

{The foolish people will say, ‘What has turned them away from the prayer direction they used to face?’ Say, ‘East and West belong to God. He guides whoever He will to the right way.’} (Al-Baqarah 2:142)

Commentators of the Quran view that the verse means God guides ‘he’ who wants to be guided. So the choice in the case of guidance is ours. We can distinguish between what is good and what is bad. God does not make us believers or unbelievers but it is our own belief which we base on our free choice and responsibility.

With regard to being accountable and responsible for our actions, we have to understand that we are responsible because we have a free will. But this freewill doesn’t operate outside the will of Allah who gave us the ability to make our choices. Allah says:

{But you will only wish to do so by the will of God, the Lord of all people.} (At-Takweer 81:29)

It is true that we do not have the choice of certain things in our lives such as when we are born, who are our parents, when we are going to die, we will be rich or poor, etc. But we are given the will to react to these situations and how our responsibilities will be.

Human responsibility depends on our freedom of choice and moral judgment. If we had no freedom of will or choice, we would not deserve praise or blame for any action we do. On human responsibility, we read the following verses:

{Corruption has flourished on land and sea as a result of people’s actions and He will make them taste the consequences of some of their own actions so that they may turn back.} (Ar-Rum 30:41)

{Whatever misfortune befalls you [people], it is because of what your own hands have done– God forgives much.} (Ash-Shura 42:30)

Therefore we are held accountable for the things we do because we have free will to do certain things and ignore others. We are responsible because we have a role to play and a mission to accomplish.

If we didn’t have a choice to exist in the first place, Islam has made the freedom to exist one of the main objectives of the Shari`ah. Islam made it a crime to take the life of people for no reason. If someone kills one person unjustly, it is as if he has killed the entire mankind. We read in the Quran what means:

{On account of [his deed], We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person– unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land– it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind. Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.} (Al-Ma’idah 5:32)

One of the divine attributes of God is justice. God is the Most Just. Out of God’s justice, He gave us free will to decide. If we cannot choose, we should not be held accountable. In Islam every human being is held accountable for his actions except those whose freedom of intellect is limited, i.e. being too young, and those whose mind is disturbed.

Because we have the freedom to choose and we are responsible, we have the power to change our conditions. Allah says what means:

{…God does not change the condition of a people [for the worse] unless they change what is in themselves…} (Ar-Ra`d 13:11)

Our role then is to choose the correct course of action. We have to act upon the laws of God and abide by them. We have to take into account the consequences of our decisions. Not everything should be taken for granted. We have to make up our mind. We will get only what we strive for.
Didn't Choose to Exist: Why Are We Responsible

No one is forced to choose the path to hellfire, or the path to heaven nor can they follow either path accidentally.

[truth_teller]

Sura #35

5 O mankind! Lo! the promise of Allah is true.
So let not the life of the world beguile you,
and let not the (avowed) beguiler beguile you with regard to Allah.

6 Lo! the devil is an enemy for you, so treat him as an enemy.
He only summoneth his faction to be owners of the flaming Fire.

[juju33312]

"I do not know who, if anyone, will ever be condemned to eternal hell."

What does the Quran say?

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by juju33312

"I do not know who, if anyone, will ever be condemned to eternal hell."

What does the Quran say?

I do not know who will go to hell. I do not know the intentions, abilities or knowledge of any other person except my own and can not even say I even know myself fully.

While there are many ayyats that state Disbelievers, idolators, hypocrites, apostates will go to hell. I can not say I know who is one intentionally, with full knowledge and of their own free will. A person will not be accountable for that which is not under their full control, intentions, abilities and knowledge.

We all will be punished for our sins every person who has sinned will spend some time in hell, which is everybody living today and probably nearly everybody who has ever lived.

The only people who will spend eternity in hell are disbelievers, idolators and hypocrites who have done so of their own free will and with knowledge.

A few thoughts of Islam:

1– The Quran Encourages People to Contemplate & Think For Themselves

Indeed, the most disliked created beings in the Sight of God are the deaf and the dumb who do not use their intellect. (Quran, 8:22)
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them. (Quran, 17:36)

2– The Quran Discourages Blindly Following Ancestral Ways and Religious Preachers

O you who believe, many religious leaders and preachers take people’s money illicitly, and repel from the path of God. (Quran, 9:34)
And they (the common people) will say: O our Sustainer! Behold, we paid heed unto our leaders and our great men, and it is they who have led us astray from the right path! (Quran, 33:67)
If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will lead you astray from God’s way. Most of the people follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork. (Quran, 6:116)

3– The Quran Promotes Pluralism & Acknowledges There Being Multiple Paths to God

Surely, those who believe (in the Qur’an and call themselves Muslims), and those who are Jews, and Christians and the Sabians; whoever acknowledges God, The Day of Accountability, and does acts of reformation – their reward is with their Sustainer. For them shall be no fear from without, nor shall grief touch them from within. (Quran, 2:62)
As for those who sincerely strive for Us, We shall most certainly guide them onto paths that lead unto Us: for, behold, God is indeed with the doers of good. (Quran, 29:69)

4—The Quran Champions Freedom of Conscience.

“If your Sustainer willed, all who are on earth, would have believed (by not providing free will). Would you then, compel people to become believers?” (Quran, 10:99)
“There is no compulsion in matters of faith.” (Quran, 2:256)

5– The Quran Asks Muslims to Be Social Activists

O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Stand up firmly for justice, witnesses for God, even if it is against yourselves, your parents and your relatives, and whether the case is of a rich person or a poor person. God is nearer to them than you are.
Do not follow your emotions lest you fall short of justice. If you distort your testimony or turn away (from this command, know that) God is Aware of all your actions. (Quran, 4:135)

6– The Quran Considers Belief as a Means to an End, and Not an End in Itself:

Do people think that they will be left (at ease) simply because they say, “We believe”, and will not be put to test? (Quran, 29:2)

If one thinks of every ayyat as being a command and/or complete in itself it will be difficult for them to actually see what the Qur'an says


To understand what Islam teaches one can not be a Qurani (Quran only Muslim)

[truth_teller]

Sura #35

45 If Allah took mankind to task by that which they deserve, He would not leave a living creature on the surface of the earth;
but He reprieveth them unto an appointed term, and when their term cometh -
then verily (they will know that) Allah is ever Seer of His slaves.

[juju33312]

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

[Woodrow LI]

Lo! Allah will cause those who believe and do good works to enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will be allowed armlets of gold, and pearls, and their raiment therein will be silk. - 22:23 (Picktall)