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Old 09-15-2013, 03:54 PM
 
762 posts, read 1,212,990 times
Reputation: 238

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
It happens all the time, Christians pay for it with their lives as you said. I certainly believe Christians are treated like second-class citizens because if they weren't there wouldn't such hostility towards them, Day to Day, week by week you'll always hear a story of new persecution done by Muslims towards Christians.... Is it all just a coincidence?


Abdur Raheem Green - Non-Muslims (1) - YouTube
Wow... What a hateful man..

Can I just seek some clarification here? If he is a Muslim and is taking his information from the Quran. Am I to assume that Christians and Jews are considered unbelievers..people to be avoided and not to make friendships..

Yet this same Quran allows Muslim men to marry women from "people of the Book" Christians? So it's ok to marry a Christian but not take them as friends. how do you make sense of this? How do you decide what is true and right?
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Do not let Gangsters and criminals fool you into thinking they are following Islam.
Problem being if asked.. These very same gangsters and thieves would say they are indeed following Islam.
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,025,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Wow... What a hateful man..

Can I just seek some clarification here? If he is a Muslim and is taking his information from the Quran. Am I to assume that Christians and Jews are considered unbelievers..people to be avoided and not to make friendships..

Yet this same Quran allows Muslim men to marry women from "people of the Book" Christians? So it's ok to marry a Christian but not take them as friends. how do you make sense of this? How do you decide what is true and right?
What is not noted is this is an old video when he was an angry young man very anti-Western society and had just converted to Islam. What is more amazing is the transformation he has gone through since learning what Islam is.


Here is a more recent video of him.



Sadly the videos he made in his youth (about 1988) have recently (within the past couple of years) been put on youtube by the radical group he once followed and are now haunting him. He has denounced extrenism and is now a strong supporter of "Peace TV"


Here is a short wiki biography of him

Abdur Raheem Green - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,025,670 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Problem being if asked.. These very same gangsters and thieves would say they are indeed following Islam.
True,

We are equal opportunity. We have our share of people that do not have the faintest idea as to what their religion entails.

I have found the same type extremists claiming to be Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc.
We all have our share of ignorant people and angry people who deliberately misuse religion.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,025,670 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Wow... What a hateful man..

Can I just seek some clarification here? If he is a Muslim and is taking his information from the Quran. Am I to assume that Christians and Jews are considered unbelievers..people to be avoided and not to make friendships..

Yet this same Quran allows Muslim men to marry women from "people of the Book" Christians? So it's ok to marry a Christian but not take them as friends. how do you make sense of this? How do you decide what is true and right?
My understanding is we are not to take non-Muslims as our Wali. Sadly Wali usually gets translated into English as friend. But the word Sadeek is the equivalent of the English concept of Friend. Wali is much closer to being like a Godfather, Protector, Mentor, Religious leader and Step parent all rolled into one. Very close to the relationship a Catholic has with their Parish Priest.

To be honest I doubt that any non-Muslim would want to be a wali to a Muslim as part of their duty would be to assure the Muslim becomes a pious Muslim.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:50 PM
 
204 posts, read 350,132 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Wow... What a hateful man..

Can I just seek some clarification here? If he is a Muslim and is taking his information from the Quran. Am I to assume that Christians and Jews are considered unbelievers..people to be avoided and not to make friendships..

Yet this same Quran allows Muslim men to marry women from "people of the Book" Christians? So it's ok to marry a Christian but not take them as friends. how do you make sense of this? How do you decide what is true and right?
Not to make it sound extremely hateful, but yes its better not to make friends with Jews or Christians in Islam, its not illegal by all means and you shouldn't look at Muslims differently because of it, but yes thats what most of the pious teach because that's whats in the Quran. That man is pretty western and peaceful compared to other Islamic leaders. A Muslim man can marry a Muslim woman, but a Muslim woman can never marry a non Muslim without him converting and even then there still might be trouble. Most Muslims like that man see themselves as superior than 'people of the Book' not because they want too - its because thats what the Quran says.
In-fact plenty of Hadiths from Mohammed teach that Muslims are superior and they should not take unbelievers as friends since they are Mohammed's enemies.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:07 PM
 
204 posts, read 350,132 times
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
True,

We are equal opportunity. We have our share of people that do not have the faintest idea as to what their religion entails.

I have found the same type extremists claiming to be Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc.
We all have our share of ignorant people and angry people who deliberately misuse religion.
I have never seen any Christians or Jews who bomb Marathons because people were attacking their religion by only 'speaking' against it - Likewise I have never found Christians beheading English Soldiers in the street thinking they are doing Gods work by using a chapter/surah as their motivation..surah 9 - I have never seen Christians screaming 'Jesus is Great/GOD' while they behead Muslims, Jews or Apostates from Christianity - I have never seen Christians or Jews fly planes into buildings so they may be mar-tyed so they can go to heaven -

Plenty more examples too, no other religion has as much extremists that Islam has and continues to create
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,025,670 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
I have never seen any Christians or Jews who bomb Marathons because people were attacking their religion by only 'speaking' against it - Likewise I have never found Christians beheading English Soldiers in the street thinking they are doing Gods work by using a chapter/surah as their motivation..surah 9 - I have never seen Christians screaming 'Jesus is Great/GOD' while they behead Muslims, Jews or Apostates from Christianity - I have never seen Christians or Jews fly planes into buildings so they may be mar-tyed so they can go to heaven -

Plenty more examples too, no other religion has as much extremists that Islam has and continues to create
As for viciousness the experts in terrorism and the inventor of the suicide vest were a Hindu Group the "Tamil Tigers" at one point declared the most powerful terrorist organization ever formed. They went unnoticed as they only killed Buddhists

The Tamil Tigers - TIME


Then there was the Baptist that flew a plane into the Catholic Shrine in San Juan Texas.Miraculously the only casualty was the suicide bomber.

San Juan Del Valle National Shrine | Alamo EDC

Then you had the thousands of Jabanese suicide squads in WWll fighting for thr Emporer that they believed was god and that they were Kamikaze "The Divine Wind" that would got to heaven as their reward.

Quote:
Kamikaze pilots were often university students, motivated by obligation and gratitude to family and country. They prepared by holding ceremonials, writing farewell poems, and receiving a "thousand stitch belt" — cloth into which 1,000 women had sewn one stitch as a symbolic uniting with the pilot. Then, in planes wrapped around 550 pound bombs, they would fly off to die.
SOURCE

Then we had/have those glorious defenders of White, American Christianity the KKK Which was still openly active until I was 30+ years old. Probably still active in some areas. Of course it is permissible for Christians to say "They are not true Christians" But, Muslims can not say that terrorists are "Are NotTrue Muslims"

Ku Klux Klan -- Extremism in America

We could go back to the wonderful happy times of the Crusades both the ones into the Holy lands and the Crusades into the North along with the Spanish inquestition. Then we have the wonderful History of the Missionarys in America and their treat ment of the Native Americans. My wife had the pleasure of being befriended by Missionaries taken from her parents on the Northern Cheyenne reservation when she was about 4 years old and sent to Canada to be raised by "Good Christian foster Parents" She was one of the lucky ones and managed to run away at about the age of 14 and made it back to the Rez.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:44 AM
 
762 posts, read 1,212,990 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
What is not noted is this is an old video when he was an angry young man very anti-Western society and had just converted to Islam. What is more amazing is the transformation he has gone through since learning what Islam is.


Here is a more recent video of him.



Sadly the videos he made in his youth (about 1988) have recently (within the past couple of years) been put on youtube by the radical group he once followed and are now haunting him. He has denounced extrenism and is now a strong supporter of "Peace TV"


Here is a short wiki biography of him

Abdur Raheem Green - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reading his wiki biography does not endear him to me I'm afraid. Lives in the UK, a western country he no doubt despises.. With his two wives which he knows to be against the law of the land. Tut tut.. I can only hope that not many muslims may heed to his earlier rantings.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:51 AM
 
762 posts, read 1,212,990 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My understanding is we are not to take non-Muslims as our Wali. Sadly Wali usually gets translated into English as friend. But the word Sadeek is the equivalent of the English concept of Friend. Wali is much closer to being like a Godfather, Protector, Mentor, Religious leader and Step parent all rolled into one. Very close to the relationship a Catholic has with their Parish Priest.

To be honest I doubt that any non-Muslim would want to be a wali to a Muslim as part of their duty would be to assure the Muslim becomes a pious Muslim.
So are we to say this is a mistranslation, or misunderstanding of what the Quran actually teaches on Christians and Jews? Looking at your description of the word wali.. I really struggle to see why such a word would be used, as its open to misinterpretation.

Here was I naively believing that Gods word meant for all mankind would mean the same in all languages..
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