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Old 12-19-2013, 09:36 AM
 
762 posts, read 1,212,852 times
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Pleased to see that the murderers of Lee Rigby have been found guilty. They will be sentenced in January I hope they get life and in their case life means life. It is a great pity they did not have the good grace to plead guilty in the first place so sparing the long drawn and costly court proceedings and sparing the family of the victims having to go through this painful procedure. However, everyone is entitled to their day in court. They said they hoped the police would have shot them dead at the scene of the crime so they could be martyrs. What a sick joke. .. Do they have martyrs in hell?


BBC News - Two guilty of Lee Rigby murder
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:59 AM
 
204 posts, read 350,106 times
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No martyrs in hell

"The Prophet said: 'Whoever cheerfully accepts Allah as his Lord, Islam as his Religion and Muhammad as his Apostle is necessarily entitled to enter Paradise.' Abu wondered at it and said: 'Messenger of Allah, repeat that for me.' He did that and said: 'There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth.' Abu said: 'What is that act?' He replied: 'Jihad in the Way of Allah! Jihad in Allah's Cause!'"
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,023,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
No martyrs in hell

"The Prophet said: 'Whoever cheerfully accepts Allah as his Lord, Islam as his Religion and Muhammad as his Apostle is necessarily entitled to enter Paradise.' Abu wondered at it and said: 'Messenger of Allah, repeat that for me.' He did that and said: 'There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth.' Abu said: 'What is that act?' He replied: 'Jihad in the Way of Allah! Jihad in Allah's Cause!'"
However Aggression and murder is not Jihad.
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
However Aggression and murder is not Jihad.
Woodrow, I think in that case muslims should be making that clear to other muslims, because these two murderers actually believed their actions were sanctified by Islam under jihad. They call themselves soldiers of Allah and said they were fighting Allah's war, they hold up their Quran's aloft which gives the impression they are doing Allah's according to the Quran.
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,023,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Woodrow, I think in that case muslims should be making that clear to other muslims, because these two murderers actually believed their actions were sanctified by Islam under jihad. They call themselves soldiers of Allah and said they were fighting Allah's war, they hold up their Quran's aloft which gives the impression they are doing Allah's according to the Quran.
Easier said than done.

Just using these two men as examples. If they did not attend any Mosque it would be nearly impossible for any Muslim knowledgable in Islam, to reach them. Most of if not all of the Mosques in the UK have a considerable amount of anti-Terrorism lectures by the Imams. UK has also been the center for many Anti-Terrorism seminars conducted by Muslims for Muslims.

Just one Example:



But keep in mind that just because a person says he is a Muslim and has a Qur'an does not mean he has had any type of Islamic education. Many calling them self Muslim do not even know the basic precepts of a Madhab. I have come across some from third world nations that did not even know there were fundamental beliefs in Islam.

We do not know who is or is not a Muslim. Mosques usually do not have any type of membership listings. Few Muslims limit them self to a single Mosque and simply go to the nearest Mosque at prayer times. Also we have some Muslims that never step foot inside a Mosque. Especially if they are a minority race or nationality and there is no Imam that speaks their language, they have had no Islamic training. In the Western nations they is a huge lack of Imams. Very few Mosques in the Western world have an Imam that has had any Islamic training. In the UK nearly all the Imams speak Urdu, if a Muslim in the UK does not speak Urdu they probably have no access to any knowledge about Islam except family.



Islam is not organized like a Christian denomination usually is. Many Muslims only go to the Mosque for the Prayers. There is no sermon at prayer times, Salat time is for worship only. Many Muslims especially from impoverished nations have no Islamic training except for what they learn from their family or friends.

There is no required teaching for a person to call them self a Muslim. There are no identifying rituals that make a person a Muslim. No Baptism, No confirmation, No joining a Mosque,No Sunday School, No Qur'an training etc. To be Muslim is an individual thing between the person and Allaah(swt) alone.

When a Muslim lives in a nation that has no Sharia law, no Madrassas, etc. they typically have no Islamic education, unless they personally take the initiative to seek it out on their own.

In the Western world few Muslims take on the responsibility to be Imams. there is a huge shortage of Imams and Islamic teachers in the Western Nations. Here in the US there are about 2,000 mosques, but only about 700 full time Imams and some of those are like me with very limited Islamic education. For many Mosques in the Western world the oldest person present serves as Imam.

The UK does have some very good well educated Imams, but most of them only speak Urdu.

Now with that said, there is no way for any person or even group to even contact all the Mosques in their own City. Very often, Muslims have no formal Mosque building but just meet in small family groups and call that their Mosque.

Sadly any person even a non Muslim could call them self an Imam and build a structure and call it a Mosque. That has probably happened more than a few times. Come to think of it that is how the NOI (Nation of Islam) started. No Muslim has any Earthly religious authority over him. We have no ordained clergy. No hierarchy of Religious leadership. No priests, Bishops, Popes, ministers, pastors, etc. Nobody to pay tithes to, no religious superior that is going to appoint anyone to a Mosque etc.

A person opening a Mosque does not get permission from someone to do it or get appointed to do so. They do it on their own. Nobody gets sent from some mega-Mosque to open a branch office someplace. Nobody knows how many mosques there are as like I said above, very many Mosques are a small neighborhood venture. A few neighbors get together and decide they need a central place to pray in. Usually begins as a single room in one person's house. Usually whoever has a spare room available.
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Leeds, England
591 posts, read 921,887 times
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They wanted the police to kill them to essentially become martyrs. I hope they get whats coming to them in Prison. The work of Allah? Bull! Although Islam is a violent and wrong religion, even regular Muslims wouldn't condone what they did.

Rest in Peace Will Rigby.

When those two ***** get whats coming to them, I hope they rot in the ground. (As they aren't going anywhere else!) Killing in the name of an imaginary man is ridiculous!

Next someone will kill because of Mr. Tickle.

(I wait for the onslaught!)
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:18 PM
 
121 posts, read 135,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Matt View Post
They wanted the police to kill them to essentially become martyrs. I hope they get whats coming to them in Prison. The work of Allah? Bull! Although Islam is a violent and wrong religion, even regular Muslims wouldn't condone what they did.

Rest in Peace Will Rigby.

When those two ***** get whats coming to them, I hope they rot in the ground. (As they aren't going anywhere else!) Killing in the name of an imaginary man is ridiculous!

Next someone will kill because of Mr. Tickle.

(I wait for the onslaught!)
Can you provide an evidence of the bolded sentence?
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,023,829 times
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I think it should be noticed there have not been any reports of Muslims supporting the 2 Killers. On the contrary we have comments like this:

Quote:
Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation – a Muslim organisation working for "peaceful co-existence" – has welcomed today's guilty verdicts, saluted the courage and dignity of Lee Rigby's family, and said:
Islam totally forbids terrorism and the killing of innocent people, there can be no justification for such evil crimes. The terrorists did not act in our name or the name of our great faith of Islam. We as British Muslims reject their terrorism, ideology and attempts to divide communities and furthermore we stand with the Lee Rigby family in unity against this barbaric and evil crime.
What happened on the streets of Woolwich are a reminder to the ever present threat of terrorism in our country, we need to remain united and determined to defeat this evil menace.

SOURCE
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:30 PM
 
204 posts, read 350,106 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by NABILBB View Post
Can you provide an evidence of the bolded sentence?
Hatred of Jews and Christians
Death Penalty for Apostates
Persecution and extermination of Christians in the Middle East
Dozens of successful and unsuccessful terrorists attacks against the West
Hatred and violence taught in Mosques all over the Middle East and the West
Muslims quoting the Quran and Mohammed when they behead people
Etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I think it should be noticed there have not been any reports of Muslims supporting the 2 Killers. On the contrary we have comments like this:



SOURCE
One way view. Majority of Muslims in the Middle East celebrate when Terrorist attacks happen in America or any part of the West. 9/11 is an example. If you look hard enough you'll see videos of Islamic clerics from the Middle East praising attacks like those on Television to a live audience.


Egyptian Cleric: Boston Bombing Was Meant to Deliver a Message; Similar Attacks Expected in France - YouTube
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:48 AM
 
121 posts, read 135,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
Hatred of Jews and Christians
This is an action of hearts, how is that violence?
Muslims hate Jews because they invaded their land, that's a normal reaction of any human
Muslims don't hate Christians. anyway, I don't see violence here

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
Death Penalty for Apostates
No, it is not, Show me where the Quran or Hadith says that

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
Persecution and extermination of Christians in the Middle East
Again, Show me where Islam teaches that. people do are violence are not ambassadors of Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
Dozens of successful and unsuccessful terrorists attacks against the West
Again, Show me where Islam teaches that. Don't talk about what people do, talk about What Islam says

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong30 View Post
Hatred and violence taught in Mosques all over the Middle East and the West
Muslims quoting the Quran and Mohammed when they behead people
I think you got the Idea of what I am asking as a prove, right?
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