Islamic State following “steps of Islam’s prophet Muhammad (punishment, Mecca)

[modernist1]

Well, even if it's say, a quarter of the number suggested, it's still considerable. Regarding being 'irrelevant' perhaps the woman is engaging in overstatement, but she vocalizes a salient point.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by modernist1

Well, even if it's say, a quarter of the number suggested, it's still considerable. Regarding being 'irrelevant' perhaps the woman is engaging in overstatement, but she vocalizes a salient point.

Sadly what I see is that because of the fear mongering some perhaps many people are taking the attitude of "Kill'em All, let God do the sorting"

Yes there are dangerous Radicals and they are a very real threat to America. But is the solution to condemn or even kill all Muslims?

Should we conemn all Mexicans because of the Terrorism by the Drug Cartels? Should we condemn all Italians because of the Mafia? Should we label anyone instead of treating each offender as an individual>

[modernist1]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

Sadly what I see is that because of the fear mongering some perhaps many people are taking the attitude of "Kill'em All, let God do the sorting"

Yes there are dangerous Radicals and they are a very real threat to America. But is the solution to condemn or even kill all Muslims?

Should we conemn all Mexicans because of the Terrorism by the Drug Cartels? Should we condemn all Italians because of the Mafia? Should we label anyone instead of treating each offender as an individual>

There's certainly a thin line between reasonable prudence and outright paranoia. But I believe complacency regarding radical Islam - and indeed the spread of religiosity in general - and the schisms it often engenders would be a mistake. Re treating people as individuals - of course - but it's invariably religious groups who practice a sort of we're all one exclusivity. As for your comparison with Italians and Mexicans - I didn't realize that being a Muslim necessarily related to ethnicity.

[Jim_a49]

Nations will not support them, they are attacking nations, they are creating their own, and drawing off the pios muslims from all over who wish to emulate muhammed, as they are ordered to.

It is my guess there are a few who are doing it quietly.

[Jim_a49]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

Sadly what I see is that because of the fear mongering some perhaps many people are taking the attitude of "Kill'em All, let God do the sorting"

Yes there are dangerous Radicals and they are a very real threat to America. But is the solution to condemn or even kill all Muslims?

Should we conemn all Mexicans because of the Terrorism by the Drug Cartels? Should we condemn all Italians because of the Mafia? Should we label anyone instead of treating each offender as an individual>

For someone who insists people tak things out of context, you are sure doing a good job.

All Mexicans do not belong to the drug cartel.
All italians do not belong to the mafia.


All muslims "DO' Belong to Islam.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Jim_a49

For someone who insists people tak things out of context, you are sure doing a good job.

All Mexicans do not belong to the drug cartel.
All italians do not belong to the mafia.


All muslims "DO' Belong to Islam.

Not all Muslims "Belong" to what you seem to believe Islam is.

I think you will find that not all Muslims view Islam in the same way.there are Muslims who do believe Islam requires violence and there are those of us who believe it requires peace and to avoid extremism in all things.

Hard to think we are following the same thing.

Just as not all Italians belong to the Mafia not all Muslims follow violence.

Islam is not exactly belonging to something. It is an act and you will find that very often what people call doing Islam are different things.

To look at some extreme ends of the spectrum there are at least 6 different groups that consider the Qur'an to be a sacred book and Muhammad(saws) to be the Rasul Allah

Sunni
Sufi
Shi'ite
Ahmadyya
NOI
Bahai

Five of them claim to do Islam, all except Bahai'i and some Bahai'i might claim to be doing Islam.

Also some Sufi do not claim to be doing Islam, there are Sufi that claim to be a Buddhist sect and the practices of some Sufi does resemble Buddhism more than performing Islam.

Now within Sunni, Shi'ite and NOI there are differences of opinion as to what consists of performing Islam. Nearly all Sunni that have done acts of Terrorism have been found to be followers of Wahhabi Which is a deviant madhab that formed about 200 years ago.

For all practical purposes no Sufi, Ahmadyyat nor Bahai'i has ever committed an act of terrorism. But they still follow the same scriptures as the Shi'ite and Sunni and believe Muhammad(saws) to be a Prophet---However both Bahai'i and Ahmadyya do not believe he was the final Prophet

Some Sunni are Qurani in other words sola-Scriptura and do not follow the Ahadith.

It is a very wide spectrum that contains all who claim to be doing Islam.

Yet most of us claim to be Muslim

Dr Wagner's definition of Islam is a very narrow view and contains only a minority of all who wear the name of Muslim.

There are also other Groups that consider the Qur'an to be sacred Scripture such as Druze and Yazidi, but their practices do not resemble Islam in any respect.

Islam is simply a verb meaning to perform the act of submitting to Allaah(swt) there is a very wide concept as to how we are to do so.

Most of us agree that all who perform the 5 pillars are doing Islam.

Contrary to what Dr Wagner said the 5 pillars are in the Qur'an, but it is in the Ahadith where Muhammad(saws) points them out.

The first pillar comes from:

48:29 (Y. Ali) Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

The second pillar comes from:

20:14 Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

The third Pillar comes from:

"We made them leaders who guide by Our command and We inspired them to work good deeds, to observe the Salat and to give the Zakat, they were worshippers of Us." 21:73

The 4th pillar comes from:

2:183
Sahih International
O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous -

The 5th pillar comes from:

[Quran 22:27] "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."

[Quran 2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Kaba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."

[Quran 2:158] The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by God. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then God is Appreciative, Omniscient.

[Jim_a49]

There are a few things I want to comment on, but you are mistaken about the origin of the 5 pillars.

all 5 were in place before islam, In the rock God era, with Qusayy.

[Jim_a49]

And here also you are trying to break down what different sects of Islam believe in, but you are failing to mention, all start with the first 5 sources and go from there.

Yes there are a few who have made up their own muhammed, and do not use the original text.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Jim_a49

And here also you are trying to break down what different sects of Islam believe in, but you are failing to mention, all start with the first 5 sources and go from there.

Yes there are a few who have made up their own muhammed, and do not use the original text.

The only text that exists in it's original form is the Qur'an.

Outside of the 5 pillars there is no standard set of instructions on how to perform Islam.

What many perhaps most Muslims learn is what they were taught by their Mothers.

Yes there are Madrassas, which will differ based upon what Madhab is followed.

As Muslims what we learn is our own responsibility. If we have any command that is to verify all things we believe.

To practice Islam is not dependent upon teachers. We all live a life of constant learning from all sources even from other beliefs if need be. You will find many Muslims are quite familiar with the scriptures of other religions.We even accept some other scriptures such as the Torah, Book of Psalms and the Gospel of Jesus as being sacred. Many Muslims do have a Bible in their home and treat it with the same respect as given to the Qur'an.

We do take desecrating a Bible as a serious offense.

Ahmed Abdullah, Bible-Burning Cleric, Sentenced

Posted: 06/17/2013 12:44 pm EDT Updated: 06/17/2013 12:44 pm EDT
AHMED ABDULLAH BIBLE BURNING



CAIRO -- A hard-line Muslim cleric received an 11-year suspended sentence Sunday for tearing up and burning a Bible, Egypt's official news agency said.

Cairo's Nasr City court sentenced Ahmed Abdullah and his son was given a suspended sentence of eight years over the same incident, the Middle East News Agency reported. The two were ordered to pay a fine of 5,000 Egyptian pounds ($700). The ruling can be appealed.

Abdullah ripped up a Bible and burned it during a Sept. 11 rally by ultraconservative Salafi Muslims in front of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, protesting an anti-Islam film produced in the United States.

SOURCE

If you were to investigate the beliefs of all of the world's Muslims you will find we each differ in some areas. About the only agreement you will find is we all do our best to follow the 5 Pillars.

[Jim_a49]

I am sorry, but there are always calls for muslims to unite, to fight a specific foe., and regardless how much they are killing each other, they will stop and all be long lost friends to fight the jews.


The problem is magnified by muslim efforts to hide the real cause of the problems, and always blame someone else.

The problem lies within the written doctrine of a religion.