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Old 10-18-2014, 11:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsiam View Post
Some U.S. states have the death penalty (Approx 30 or so) and Torture is legal in the U.S. (Torture memos).
I don't recall any recent death penalties for religious reasons.

And no, torture is not legal in the US, sure it has been done, and if proven the offenders punished.
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Old 10-19-2014, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I don't recall any recent death penalties for religious reasons.

And no, torture is not legal in the US, sure it has been done, and if proven the offenders punished.
The majority of Islamic nations have never had the death penalty for religious reasons. Out of the 49 Islamic nations

Yes there have been 'Vigilante" killings in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Iraq, Afghanistan and possibly a few others but those were not sanctioned or approved by the government.

Of the 49 Islamic nations 17 have the Death penalty on the books but only a few have used it in the past 10 years and no one has been executed for 'Religious Crimes" in the past 10 years. Yes, some have been sentenced in Iran, Pakistan, Saudi and Somalia but none have been carried out by a legal court recognized by the nation.


Part of my information above came from this SOURCE
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:07 AM
 
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I find it hard to swallow, but will not contest, that so few have the death penalty.

After all, it is ordered in the Qur'an.
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:34 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The majority of Islamic nations have never had the death penalty for religious reasons. Out of the 49 Islamic nations

Yes there have been 'Vigilante" killings in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Iraq, Afghanistan and possibly a few others but those were not sanctioned or approved by the government.

Of the 49 Islamic nations 17 have the Death penalty on the books but only a few have used it in the past 10 years and no one has been executed for 'Religious Crimes" in the past 10 years. Yes, some have been sentenced in Iran, Pakistan, Saudi and Somalia but none have been carried out by a legal court recognized by the nation.


Part of my information above came from this SOURCE
Look at your own link. All the countries you've have it as legal. These are the countries where the foundation for Islam was laid. They are mostly part of the 22 Nation Arab league that makes up the view of how people see Islam.

Criminal Court sentenced a prominent Shia cleric to death
Saudi Arabia: Prominent Shia Cleric Sentenced to Death | Human Rights Watch

I could list sites in Arabic, but outside of the two of us I don't know if there are many that can read conversational Arabic and translator programs make too many mistakes.
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:55 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsiam View Post
Some U.S. states have the death penalty (Approx 30 or so) and Torture is legal in the U.S. (Torture memos).
But the death penalty is not as a public spectacle and in mostly (99%) one state in the entire USA and its usually for Murder only. Yet numerous Arab Islam nations are doing it for what ever suits it whims.

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/YearEnd2013.pdf
Death penalty statistics, country by country | visualisation and data | World news | theguardian.com

And since Israel is part of the topic of this thread, their number is "0".

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&hl=en#gid=0
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Old 10-19-2014, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I find it hard to swallow, but will not contest, that so few have the death penalty.

After all, it is ordered in the Qur'an.
Most Muslims do not think so.

While it is acknowledged that for 5 Crimes (Hadud) there is a maximum prescribed penalty, that being death. But the courts are encouraged to find reason to use the minimum punishment permissible or even to let the person off with out punishment.

Under the 5 Hadud crimes the criteria required to establish guilt is virtually impossible to meet.

The 4 madhabs do differ slightly on the conditions in which the death penalty can be used.

The Hanafi being the most lenient as a Modern Hanafi court has never used the death penalty. About 30% of the Islamic Nations follow the Hanafi.

The Strictest Madhab is the Hambali which is only followed by Qatar and Saudi.

Iran is the Islamic Nation that uses Capital punishment the most. They follow Jafa'ari law that is not recognized by Sunni. Saudi is the second largest user of Capital punishment. Pakistan is the nation most likely to have lynch mobs or vigilante law. A reflection on the government's inability to maintain law.

Most Islamic nations use secular law for criminal cases and Shariah is used only in civil matters.

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-19-2014 at 05:21 AM..
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Old 10-20-2014, 01:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
When we consider the jews owned the land 17 times in the last 4000 years, more than anyone, and have a rich history buried there, as proof.

At what point in time, do you consider a valid title for ownership.
But there is proof various other peoples had pre dated the Hebrews and the Jews in the land of Israel! Jews had slaughtered and fought with the Geshemites/Geshurites to capture the land in ancient times.
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Old 10-20-2014, 01:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
When we consider the jews owned the land 17 times in the last 4000 years, more than anyone, and have a rich history buried there, as proof.

At what point in time, do you consider a valid title for ownership.
Then many monuments and excavations have uncovered older artifacts. For example a 5,000 year told stone monument has been found in what is now called Israel/Palestine.

This indicates that there were other peoples before Jews prominence and claims to the land. So therefore various peoples inhabited the land before Jews ever laid some claim to it. Jews originate from lands just outside of what is now Jerusalem and Israel.

Palestinians are proven to be genetic descendants of Jews based on Israeli genetic studies.

Massive 5,000-Year-Old Stone Monument Revealed in Israel
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Old 10-20-2014, 01:52 PM
 
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Official documents released in April 2013 by the State Archive of Israel show that days before the establishment of the State of Israel in May 1948, Jewish officials were still debating about what the new country would be called in Arabic: Palestine (Filastin), Zion (Sayoun) or Israel (Eesra’il). Two assumptions were made: "That an Arab state was about to be established alongside the Jewish one in keeping with the UN’s partition resolution the year before, and that the Jewish state would include a large Arab minority whose feelings needed to be taken into account". In the end, the officials rejected the name Palestine because they thought that would be the name of the new Arab state and could cause confusion so they opted for the most straightforward option: Israel.
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Old 10-20-2014, 03:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobreTodo View Post
Then many monuments and excavations have uncovered older artifacts. For example a 5,000 year told stone monument has been found in what is now called Israel/Palestine.

This indicates that there were other peoples before Jews prominence and claims to the land. So therefore various peoples inhabited the land before Jews ever laid some claim to it. Jews originate from lands just outside of what is now Jerusalem and Israel.

Palestinians are proven to be genetic descendants of Jews based on Israeli genetic studies.

Massive 5,000-Year-Old Stone Monument Revealed in Israel
of other people inhabiting land
I think for these purposes we are referring to recorded history.There is evidence all over the world, in stone, of previous people.

Do we now change title for Göbekli Tepe


And BTW a 5000 year old stone does not exist if you believe the Adam and Eve story.
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