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Old 10-18-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
as to the constitution i must judge just like i do the quran, what has been written not what others tell me it meant. the great folly of the mideast is so very few have read the quran and others like those that post on CDF, "interpret" what the quran meant.
Interpretations are based upon looking at all available sources. While the words of the Qur'an do not change, our interpretations will change as we learn more.

It is our own responsibility to constantly verify our interpretations and to remain flexible to change when we discover we are making an error.

We do read or listen to the opinions and interpretations by others and it is our obligation to check the validity and reasons for them.

Part of searching and learning from all sources includes but is not limited to:

Tafsir
Fatwas
Qur'an
Madhabs
Ahadith
Opinions of Scholars
Previous Scripture (Some of us do study the Torah, Psalms, Bible, etc) to help gain insight into the reasons for the Qur'an and Sunnah.
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
The out of context defense is used in post 91
A thorough but lengthy post is made in the defend that the killing of Jews and Christians only pertained to a specific historic event
And yet chapter 9 section 2 has been used countless times as a call to arms for extremists
After all its the Quran
I find Surah 9 ayyat 2 is used more often by non-Muslims to serve as "Proof" that the extremists are following Islam.

They do not seem to comprehend that is not a command, but was a response to the Mushrikun that violated the Treaty. The first discourse of Surah 9 was to show the importance of keeping treaties and the only justification to end a trety before it's term is if the treaty had been violated.
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,665 posts, read 74,612,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I find Surah 9 ayyat 2 is used more often by non-Muslims to serve as "Proof" that the extremists are following Islam.

They do not seem to comprehend that is not a command, but was a response to the Mushrikun that violated the Treaty. The first discourse of Surah 9 was to show the importance of keeping treaties and the only justification to end a trety before it's term is if the treaty had been violated.
i doubt it. so far i am the only one who has read quran that has posted on this subject. as to isis following islam- they dont say they are following islam-- they say they are islam. as far as muslim support for terrorists goes, you could hear the parties for miles the night of 911 in dearborn.
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
That is not correct, and you have nothing to back that up.

The Qur'an was arranged by compilers, not authors, for all we know they could have been illiterate.

It is arranged from longest sura to the shortest. something easily accomplished by a child.

It also had several versions, at least 5 were destroyed, some survived.

And it would be a couple hundred years to complete.

There was none during Muhammeds life, and the first writings, 60 years later, do not even show any knowledge of such. No muhammed, no Qur'an, no muslims, no Islam," just the godless pagans".
The Religion never had a name. It is an action not a title. Islam is the Act of Submitting to Allaah(swt) a Muslim is the person who does Islam

It did not become a common name until about 200 years ago, used by Non-Muslims, as a label for those who perform Islam in accordance with the Qur'an.

You are not going to find it used as a label before than.

It is known there were at least 6 Compilations of the Qur'an prior to Uthman. Each written in a different script with no universal recognition. There is no indication the Various forms differed in Content. Only the writing style was affected and the final form had to be in agreement with the Hafiz.

The Written Qur'an is secondary to the oral and the written is to be in agreement with the oral, including pronunciation.
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i doubt it. so far i am the only one who has read quran that has posted on this subject. as to isis following islam- they dont say they are following islam-- they say they are islam. as far as muslim support for terrorists goes, you could hear the parties for miles the night of 911 in dearborn.
There are only a few non-Muslims posting here. You alone are almost a majority. but if you go to almost any anti-Islamic site you will find non-Muslims doing just that.

Have you ever seen any verifiable proof that any terrorist used the Qur'an as justification?

I am aware of the celebrations in Dearborn on 9/11. Like most American Muslims I condemn them for doing so.

For a more typical view of the American Muslim reaction see HERE
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Old 10-18-2014, 04:18 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There are only a few non-Muslims posting here. You alone are almost a majority. but if you go to almost any anti-Islamic site you will find non-Muslims doing just that.

Have you ever seen any verifiable proof that any terrorist used the Qur'an as justification?

I am aware of the celebrations in Dearborn on 9/11. Like most American Muslims I condemn them for doing so.

For a more typical view of the American Muslim reaction see HERE
Virtually all terror incidents are accompanied by screams of "Allah Achbar"

To say they used the Qur'an is vague.

To say they used the religion, is more accurate.

And to get on the terror meter, a main requirement is proof of using the religion, and so far there have been about 23.000 verifable incidents where the religion is used.

These start from 9/11, to present day.
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Virtually all terror incidents are accompanied by screams of "Allah Achbar"

To say they used the Qur'an is vague.

To say they used the religion, is more accurate.

And to get on the terror meter, a main requirement is proof of using the religion, and so far there have been about 23.000 verifable incidents where the religion is used.

These start from 9/11, to present day.
The terror meter is based upon the sites criteria for what constitutes using religion.

You do know "Allahu Akbar" is a very common Arabic phrase. Almost ingrained in Arabic Speakers Muslim and non-Muslim alike. You will find Christians from Syria, Jordan and Palestine use it as often as Muslims do.

It is no more an indication the person is a practicing Muslim Then a Man hitting his thumb with a hammer and hollering the name of "Jesus(as)" is a practicing Christian.


I find it interesting that non-Muslims can identify who is a Muslim, but us Muslims can't. We have no way to know who is a Muslim and accept all who claim to be Muslim as being Muslim. Being Muslim is known only to the individual and Allaah(swt)

Many people use the Qur'an. That does not mean they understand it or are practicing Muslims.

I currently have 7 or more Bibles in my house and often say "God have Mercy" does that make me a Christian?
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:58 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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Not a good argument,

when Allah Achbar is exclaimed, it is out of glory.

When Jesus Christ, is said after hitting you thumb with a hammer it is a little different and has no religious meaning


I showed you the site, and you probably have read their criteria.

It looks pretty straight forward to me.
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Old 10-18-2014, 06:00 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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And saying God have mercy, hardly makes anyone a Christian,

All religions have Gods.
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Old 10-18-2014, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
And saying God have mercy, hardly makes anyone a Christian,

All religions have Gods.
And for the very same reason hollering "Allahu Akbar" is not proof the person was Muslim.

Do you really believe that in those 23,000 terrorist incidents there were witnesses that stated they heard the Terrorist holler "Allahu Akbar" especially since that is not what we say when starting a task in Allaah(swt)'s name. When we do something in the name of Allaah(swt) we are to say "Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem" (In the name of Allah, the most beneficent, the most merciful"

See HERE

Methinks the site is doing some creative reporting.
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