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Old 10-09-2014, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
What you just gave is a perfect example of what I have said all along.

You gave me something with no references, written at least, hundreds of years after the event, fabricating a story.

It even says it is from muhammed.

There is nothing at all from Muhammed, and nobody even knew anything about him, as a single person until 125 years afterwords.
The Jews seem to be convinced Muhammad(saws) lived at the stated times.

From Jewish sites---HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Jews seem to be convinced Muhammad(saws) lived at the stated times.

From Jewish sites---HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE

Woodrow, you keep doing the same thing, presenting a story made from recent information.
The accepted story, with nothing to back it up.

The Jews themselves have no info about him, as Muhammed, just the wandering bands of raiders.

If you have something jewish from that time period, please show me.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Woodrow, you keep doing the same thing, presenting a story made from recent information.
The accepted story, with nothing to back it up.

The Jews themselves have no info about him, as Muhammed, just the wandering bands of raiders.

If you have something jewish from that time period, please show me.
The Jews are quite fanatical over the oral preservation of their history. those links I provided do not contradict the oral History and are accepted as true by many Jews,

From a non-Jewish-Non-Muslim study there is this

Quote:
Not only the text of the Quran, but also the physical fragments are the object of investigation. The organic materials can be dated with precision with the help of radiocarbon analysis. Radiocarbon or C14 is a radioactive isotope of carbon. This analysis can only be carried out in specialised laboratories, which makes it relatively expensive. We therefore welcomed the opportunity when Leiden was invited to take part in the Coranica project by having a number or our ancient Quran fragments tested.

Analysis

Radiocarbon dating results for the Leiden Quran fragment Or. 14.545b-c (copyright Coranica project)

For the tests a small quantity of original material was needed. Last September (2013) the Berlin scholar Tobias J. Jocham came to Leiden to take samples in the conservation laboratory of Leiden University Libraries. Tiny fragments of c. 20 milligrammes each were removed from the margins without loss of text, but only after the items had been carefully photographed. The samples were sent to the laboratory of the Technische Hochschule in Zurich (ETH).
Recently the test results have arrived. The papyrus fragment has been dated between 650 and 715 CE, more than a century earlier than we thought. The oldest fragment on parchment was most likely made between 650 and 700. The tests confirm the early provenance and the importance of the earliest Leiden fragments, which were made within 30 to 70 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad.
SOURCE
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:42 PM
 
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The Jews were meticulous record keepers, and did not need oral transmission,
You are mixing times, of when Jewish pre-history has a similar relationship to Muslim history, except for one main thing.

Once a written language was established, oral history was no longer needed, and the Jews wrote down everything.

The Torah and OT, dates mostly from 400 BCE to 200 AD., It claims to have writings that tell of events thousands of years earlier, but like Islam, even the Jewish religion's origin can be traced to the mesopotania basin, and another religion entirely, 1000 years earlier.

During the reign of Muhammed, they had lots of paper, and everybody could read and write.

Even Muhammed himself, had a 12 year old Jewish boy read to him.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:46 PM
 
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And the Sana Qur'ans date to the same time period. but the problem is they are different from todays Qur'an's,

Remember, at least 5 others were destroyed/
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
The Jews were meticulous record keepers, and did not need oral transmission,
You are mixing times, of when Jewish pre-history has a similar relationship to Muslim history, except for one main thing.

Once a written language was established, oral history was no longer needed, and the Jews wrote down everything.

The Torah and OT, dates mostly from 400 BCE to 200 AD., It claims to have writings that tell of events thousands of years earlier, but like Islam, even the Jewish religion's origin can be traced to the mesopotania basin, and another religion entirely, 1000 years earlier.

During the reign of Muhammed, they had lots of paper, and everybody could read and write.

Even Muhammed himself, had a 12 year old Jewish boy read to him.
The Tanakh is still oral tradition of Judaism. although there is a written Tanakh that came about in about the second or third century the oral Tanakh is still used to explain Jewish History. It is also used to interpret the Torah.

Doe more info see HERE
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-09-2014 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:25 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,597 times
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The oral tradition, like in all religions, is what supposedly happened before it was written down, In Judism, it covers a span of 2000 years.


Unfortunatly the stories told, are from previous religions.

Remember, they used Adam and eve, not their own creation, but adopted it from another.

They dated the world at 4700 years, but did not start writing it for 2000 years.
2000 years of supposed oral traditions.

Common sense will tell you there was no Adam and Eve 4700 years ago.


Even the chinese and Hindu had thriving civilizations, long before that, documented at the time Judism created the earth.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:00 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,500,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
The oral tradition, like in all religions, is what supposedly happened before it was written down, In Judism, it covers a span of 2000 years.


Unfortunatly the stories told, are from previous religions.

Remember, they used Adam and eve, not their own creation, but adopted it from another.

They dated the world at 4700 years, but did not start writing it for 2000 years.
2000 years of supposed oral traditions.

Common sense will tell you there was no Adam and Eve 4700 years ago.


Even the chinese and Hindu had thriving civilizations, long before that, documented at the time Judism created the earth.
Adam schmaddam.
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:31 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,597 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Tanakh is still oral tradition of Judaism. although there is a written Tanakh that came about in about the second or third century the oral Tanakh is still used to explain Jewish History. It is also used to interpret the Torah.

Doe more info see HERE
I suggest you read your own post, it confirms what I just said.
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Old 10-10-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I suggest you read your own post, it confirms what I just said.
I should have explained the Oral Tanakh covers Jewish History pretty much up until the time of the Nazi Holocaust. It is a bit of an ongoing thing.

While I am somewhat familiar with Judaism I am not an expert and do admit I am only basing this on what I have heard from Jewish friends and relatives.
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