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Old 10-10-2014, 07:22 AM
 
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But upon the invention of the Hebrew language, which evolved from Pictorial Phonician, everything was written down, and no longer dependant on peoples memory passing down info.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
But upon the invention of the Hebrew language, which evolved from Pictorial Phonician, everything was written down, and no longer dependant on peoples memory passing down info.
The full oral tanakh has never been written down. Even the part that has been written will not be used by the Orthodox as they believe it is forbidden to write the Tanakh. Much of the Tanakh still has not been written and wont be
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The full oral tanakh has never been written down. Even the part that has been written will not be used by the Orthodox as they believe it is forbidden to write the Tanakh. Much of the Tanakh still has not been written and wont be
I just realized I am getting some (Most) of the Judaic terms ,mixed up. I should have been saying Talmud and Midrash instead of oral Tanakh.

A definition of the terms I got the names confused for

Quote:
Important writings

To assist in proper interpretation and application of the mitzvot, a great body of rabbinical writings has developed and continues to develop to this day. Study of Torah (prefably in its original language, Hebrew) is an integral part of a Jewish child's education, and even Jewish mysticism is focused on intensive textual study.
Tanakh

The Jewish sacred text is the Tanakh, whose name is an acronym of Torah, Nebi'im and Ketuvim (Law, Prophets and Writings). It consists of the same books as the Christian Old Testament, although in a slightly different order and with other minor differences.
Torah

Although the word "Torah" is sometimes used to refer to the entire Tanakh or even the whole body of Jewish writings, it technically means the first five books of the Tanakh. These books are also known as the Five Books of Moses or the Pentateuch.
Talmud: The Oral Torah

Another important Jewish text is the Talmud, a collection of rabbinical writings that interpret, explain and apply the Torah scriptures. The Talmud was written between the second and fifth century CE, but Orthodox Jews believe it was revealed to Moses along with the Torah and preseved orally until it was written down. The Talmud is thus known as the "Oral Torah," with the first five books of the Tanakh designated the "Written Torah."
Midrash

A third group of Jewish literature is the Midrash, which is a large body of rabbinical material derived primary from sermons (the Hebrew word for "sermon" is d'rash). The primary collections of Midrash were compiled between the fourth and sixth centuries, but the midrashic form continues to the present day.
SOURCE
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:58 AM
 
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As I said, these are stories that have no specific origin, but are put into an impossible place thousands of years after words.


Definition:

Midrash is a form of rabbinic literature. There are two types of midrash: midrash aggada and midrash halakha.
Midrash aggada can best be described as a form of storytelling that explores ethics and values in biblical texts. ("Aggada" literally means "story" or "telling" in Hebrew.) It can take any biblical word or verse and interpret it to answer a question or explain something in the text. For instance, a midrash may attempt to explain why Adam didn’t stop Eve from eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. One of the best-known midrashim (plural of midrash) deals with Abraham’s childhood in early Mesopotamia, where he is said to have smashed the idols in his father’s shop because even at that age he knew there was only One God. Midrash aggadah can be found in both Talmuds, in midrashic collections and in Midrash Rabbah, which means "Great Midrash."


Whereas midrash aggada focuses on biblical characters as they pertain to values and ideas, midrash halakha focuses on Jewish law and practice. Midrash halakha attempts to take biblical texts that are either general or unclear and to clarify what they mean. A midrash of this nature may explain why, for instance, tefillin are used during prayer and how they should be worn.

Pronunciation: mi-drash
Examples: A famous midrash about Abraham describes his childhood in
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:02 AM
 
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Hey Woodrow.

Slightly off topic, maybe not, but this is one of the most fascinating religious videos I have ever seen.

It can be appreciated by all of the Abrahamic faiths.

Please take the time to watch this.


The Real Mount Sinai Found in Saudi Arabia - YouTube
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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I do agree it is very interesting.

I am not too certain of what significance it is, except that it reinforces the general belief of Muslims that the Bible as it exists today, contains errors.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:32 AM
 
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There was an article by Reuven Firestone that posited the theory that the Quranic stories (such as the one where the Quran does not name the son that was sacrificed) may have been the original stories that were preserved by the Arab Jews (and subsequently written into the Quran)----but were changed for religio-political purposes when the Torah was written---which may account for some discrepancies between the OT stories and the Quran.......(Its his opinion, not mine)

If I find the article again, I'll post a link.....
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsiam View Post
There was an article by Reuven Firestone that posited the theory that the Quranic stories (such as the one where the Quran does not name the son that was sacrificed) may have been the original stories that were preserved by the Arab Jews (and subsequently written into the Quran)----but were changed for religio-political purposes when the Torah was written---which may account for some discrepancies between the OT stories and the Quran.......(Its his opinion, not mine)

If I find the article again, I'll post a link.....


The problem is that the Qur'an, and anything Islam, was many hundreds of years later.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Originally Posted by donnic View Post
Christians believe that the Bible is the revealed word of God. If you don't believe this you cannot call yourself a Christian. Muslims believe that the Koran is the reveled word of Allah. Someone who doesn't believe this is not a Muslim, whatever they choose to call themselves.

The Koran requires believers to convert or kill all unbelievers. A person who claims to not believe this is not a Muslim, whatever they choose to call themselves. Anyone who does claim to believe this is a danger to civilization.

Islamic jihadists, ISIS, Al Qaeda, et al are practicing the Muslim religion, Just ask them. If a persons political correctness or collectivist ideology leads them to deny this, they are simply delusional. Such people commonly use accusations of racism and bigotry to demonize and excoriate those who do not agree with their idealistic world view.
That is not true.
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:32 PM
 
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It is interesting that throughout the history of the Islamic world that both Christian and Jewish communities existed and were free to enjoy their religious beliefs and practices. If indeed as Jim_a49 contends that it is/was the duty of Muslims to kill non-believers, Muslim rulers had a strange way of do so.

I also hasten to note that "The Golden Age" of Judaism in Spain occurred during the rule of the various Muslim "leaders" and that convert or die, for Jews did not take place until the Reconquista by the Catholic regime.

Now of course over that long and storied history, it isn't to say that all was milk and honey between Muslim regimes, Jews and Christians but those tensions pale in comparison to the fate of Jews in Christian dominions. So to reiterate, if it is the duty of Muslims to slay non-believers, Muslims have done a very **** poor job of it.
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