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Old 10-18-2014, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Something that holds true in all religions and cultures.

Man made God, in his own image.

We are speaking of the written text, Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, and all, regardless of race, work from there.

Islamic text, written about 800 years later, depicts a completely different person, and there is no pre=history to their text, it was fabricated in the 9th century.

What image of Jesus Christ do you see in the Quran and what do you think it symbolizes?
What image of Jesus Christ do you see in the 4 Gospels and what do you think it symbolizes?
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Sorry, you have a book nobody knows who wrote, and there are suspects, you have a book proven historically, and archeologically wrong, and you expect me to believe God said so.

That is some pretty weak sauce.
I have no expectations that you will ever believe in the existence of Allaah(swt) nor that you will ever accept the Qur'an as being the words of Allaah(swt)

Neither I nor any other Muslim loose anything by you not believing nor will we gain anything if you ever become a believer.

I have no incentive to try to convert you or anyone else to Islam. Just the opposite, if anyone ever tells me they have converted because of anything I ever said, I would immediately tell them they converted for the wrong reasons.

A person should only convert because of their own findings not because of what any religious salesman sold them.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 10-18-2014 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:33 PM
 
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Generally people take on the religions of their fathers,

when a person converts, it is seldom for the religion, but rather for the new group of friends, he learns the religion later.

But then, what does he learn about the religion.

If you handed all western converts the sirat rasuall allah, to read before converting, only the psychopaths would join.

But instead they are given a book that cannot be understood by anyone, anyplace, any time.
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Old 10-19-2014, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Generally people take on the religions of their fathers,

when a person converts, it is seldom for the religion, but rather for the new group of friends, he learns the religion later.

But then, what does he learn about the religion.

If you handed all western converts the sirat rasuall allah, to read before converting, only the psychopaths would join.

But instead they are given a book that cannot be understood by anyone, anyplace, any time.
Many perhaps most Reverts to Islam do not even know any Muslims at the time they revert. I find it to be quite rare for a Muslim in America to try to convert anyone to Islam.

I doubt you will find many Muslims who consider the "Sirat ul Rasool Allah" to be required reading or even Sunnah.

Islam is very far from being a Social club. Reverting to Islam often does not open the door to a new group of friends. Just the opposite here in America many Muslims view reverts with suspicion and assume they are government agents trying to find reasons to arrest them.

I find it is much easier for a person who is openly opposed to Islam to make Muslim friends than for a revert to. It is quite difficult for a revert to be accepted as a friend in many Mosques, especially in large cities.

My advantage is I do speak Arabic, possibly better than most Muslims I personally know as most Muslims I know do not speak Arabic except in the content of the Qur'an. Most Muslims I know speak Urdu as their first language followed closely by Somali and Turkish.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsiam View Post
What image of Jesus Christ do you see in the Quran and what do you think it symbolizes?
What image of Jesus Christ do you see in the 4 Gospels and what do you think it symbolizes?
Right out of the gate, Jesus, if he existed, was not a muslim, nor were his apostles.

Islam would not be invented in it's present form, for another 800 years.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Many perhaps most Reverts to Islam do not even know any Muslims at the time they revert. I find it to be quite rare for a Muslim in America to try to convert anyone to Islam.

I doubt you will find many Muslims who consider the "Sirat ul Rasool Allah" to be required reading or even Sunnah.

.
We have a mosque in my neighborhood that actively and publicly recruits, even having a van, with brightly painted verses, and pushing jesus in the Qur'an.

and only the higharcy and terrorists use the Sira, few muslims are even told about it.

The last thing Islam can do, is push a book about muhammed, unless it is a re-write, which is done so often.
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Right out of the gate, Jesus, if he existed, was not a muslim, nor were his apostles.

Islam would not be invented in it's present form, for another 800 years.
To say anyone is not a Muslim is to say they do not Submit to God(swt) I believe Jesus(as) did submit to God(swt) making him a Muslim.

The forms of submission has differed from era to era but it is still doing Islam be it the Following of the Injil (Gospel of Jesus), The Torah, Tanakh and Talmud or the Qur'an. Which ever is the latest revelation at their time.

If Moses(PBUH) had been immortal he would have Followed the Torah until the Revelation of the Injil and would have followed that until the revelation of the Qur'an. But as he was doing Islam, he would have been a Muslim.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:28 AM
 
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There is no mention of any of these earlier Christian and jewish prophets doing any of the 5 pillars.
Nothing at all regarding anything Islamic.
Sure, Jesus helped the poor, but the earliest muslim writings put the pillar of helping the poor, to paying the leaders.

To say a person is muslim because he follows God, is way out there.
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
There is no mention of any of these earlier Christian and jewish prophets doing any of the 5 pillars.
Nothing at all regarding anything Islamic.
Sure, Jesus helped the poor, but the earliest muslim writings put the pillar of helping the poor, to paying the leaders.

To say a person is muslim because he follows God, is way out there.
The current five Pillars are specific for the Muslims of today. But they have some level of precedence in the earlier Abrahamic faiths.

1. Both Jews and Christians claim to believe there is only one God(swt)

2. They both have established regular prayers

3. Giving Charity is one of their core principals.

4. Most Christians have set aside a period of Fasting (Lent)

5. Most Christians have an "Alter Call" which is not much different from Hajj except for being local and ongoing instead of a 10 day ritual in Mecca.

Even the 5 Pillars are not new. They were followed in the past in one form or another. Remember a person is not accountable for that which has not been revealed. The previous Abrahamic people did follow the 5 pillars to the extent of what had been revealed to them. Muhammad(saws) had not been born. They followed the 5 pillars in accordance with what they knew.

The current 5 Pillars

5 pillars of Islam

1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone,

2) Prayer: Establish regular prayers

3) Giving to Charity

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:51 AM
 
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Woodrow.

All monotheistic religions believe in one god.

These are a small percentage of the religions today.
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