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Old 09-27-2014, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Someone on the Music forum posted this about Cat Stevens.

Cat Stevens cancels New York date over ticket tout concerns | Music | theguardian.com

HE HAS A GUITAR. I thought you said instrumental music is forbidden in Islam? Please 'splain, as you always do.
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Someone on the Music forum posted this about Cat Stevens.

Cat Stevens cancels New York date over ticket tout concerns | Music | theguardian.com

HE HAS A GUITAR. I thought you said instrumental music is forbidden in Islam? Please 'splain, as you always do.
Each person is responsible for his own actions. While nearly every scholar I have read is of the opinion music instruments are forbidden it still comes down to the person himself having to find justification for believing it is forbidden to use Music Instruments.

Even so there is no absolute command to not use Music instruements. That is a Sunnah ruling meaning it was not something Muhammad(saws) did. To follow Sunnahis to do our best to live as Muhammad(saws) did.

I doubt if any Muslim will believe Cat Stevens will go to hell for playing the guitar, but doing so is not likely to gain him any rewards.

While we can accuse someone of wrong doing, that does no necessarily mean they are sinning. It takes several things for an act to be a sin.

The person must know it is a sin
They must know it will entail a punishment
They must have the intent to sin
They must be acting of their own free will and with full knowledge of what they are doing.

While I believe Cat is doing wrong, it is between him and Allaah(swt) if he is sinning.
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:57 AM
 
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Unfortunatly if he was in many Islamic countries, he would lose his head for doing so.

Muhammed himself condemned music, and many muslims take it upon themselves to enforce God's will.
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Old 09-27-2014, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Unfortunatly if he was in many Islamic countries, he would lose his head for doing so.

Muhammed himself condemned music, and many muslims take it upon themselves to enforce God's will.
that would not be Sunnah.


While Muhammad(saws) did not condone Music there is no evidence he required the harming of anyone who used it.

From the Ahadith

Quote:
Sahih Bukhari002.015.070 -
Narrated Aisha:
Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) came to my house while two girls were singing beside me the songs of Buath (a story about the war between the two tribes of the Ansar, the Khazraj and the Aus, before Islam). The Prophet (p.b.u.h) lay down and turned his face to the other side. Then Abu Bakr came and spoke to me harshly saying, "Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ?" Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) turned his face towards him and said, "Leave them." When Abu Bakr became inattentive, I signalled to those girls to go out and they left. It was the day of 'Id, and the Black people were playing with shields and spears; so either I requested the Prophet (p.b.u.h) or he asked me whether I would like to see the display. I replied in the affirmative. Then the Prophet (p.b.u.h) made me stand behind him and my cheek was touching his cheek and he was saying, "Carry on! O Bani Arfida," till I got tired. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) asked me, "Are you satisfied (Is that sufficient for you)?" I replied in the affirmative and he told me to leave.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Unfortunatly if he was in many Islamic countries, he would lose his head for doing so.

Muhammed himself condemned music, and many muslims take it upon themselves to enforce God's will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
[SIZE=+2]Moderator cut: quote removed as it was all copy & paste

None of those are a command or permission for us to kill anyone. If someone did such they would not be following the Qur'an or Sunnah.
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Last edited by mensaguy; 09-28-2014 at 09:09 AM.. Reason: C&P
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Each person is responsible for his own actions. While nearly every scholar I have read is of the opinion music instruments are forbidden it still comes down to the person himself having to find justification for believing it is forbidden to use Music Instruments.

Even so there is no absolute command to not use Music instruements. That is a Sunnah ruling meaning it was not something Muhammad(saws) did. To follow Sunnahis to do our best to live as Muhammad(saws) did.

I doubt if any Muslim will believe Cat Stevens will go to hell for playing the guitar, but doing so is not likely to gain him any rewards.

While we can accuse someone of wrong doing, that does no necessarily mean they are sinning. It takes several things for an act to be a sin.

The person must know it is a sin
They must know it will entail a punishment
They must have the intent to sin
They must be acting of their own free will and with full knowledge of what they are doing.

While I believe Cat is doing wrong, it is between him and Allaah(swt) if he is sinning.
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation, Woodrow. That's why I directed the question to you specifically.
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
None of those are a command or permission for us to kill anyone. If someone did such they would not be following the Qur'an or Sunnah.
One of the hidden catches in Islam, is "Those who do mischief in the land".

The consequences here are overwhelming, and apply to anyone who is not conforming to the norm, and yes, the penalty is amputations and death.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:53 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Musical instruments are 'bad'? How bloody absurd.
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Musical instruments are 'bad'? How bloody absurd.


There are 2 that are permitted for Muslims the Duff and Drums. A guitar does not look like either.

There is no actual commands regarding the use of them It is Sunnah to not use them as Muhammad(saws) did not use the, To be sunnah requires one to live a life as close as possible to how Muhammad(saws) lived.

It does not matter if it is good, evil or neutral as to if playing a music instrument is a sin? that is open for debate, you will have a hard time finding a majority consensus on that. I doubt many if any Muslims believe Cat will be punished for playing the guitar, but most of us will agree he will not receive any rewards for doing so, but he would be rewarded for not doing such.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:28 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,283,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is a Sunnah ruling meaning it was not something Muhammad(saws) did. To follow Sunnahis to do our best to live as Muhammad(saws) did.
I can understand, a little, the cult of personality worship that would make someone want to live the way some paragon of humanity (in their eyes, not mine, as I think Muhammad was anything but from what I know of him thus far.) did. I myself do not engage in personality worship per se, but there are aspects and attributes of various people I use as an example to myself to do better. The Honesty and Sportsmanship of Jimmy White for example is something I strive for in many aspects of my life.

But I have to say I am _entirely_ baffled by the non-sensical impression I am getting from your above words which I can only assume.... due to how ridiculous my interpretation is..... that I have misunderstood somehow.

Are you suggesting that your process of personality cult worship extends not only to trying to do the things he did, in the way he did them..... but also to REFRAIN from doing things he did not?? That is what the above seems to suggest, but this is so patently ridiculous that I can not possibly be reading it correctly.

But yet that appears to be what you are saying.... that because Muhammad did not do X.... there is some kind of spoken (or unspoken?) expectation within the personality worship around him that followers also refrain from it too?

For example I have heard it said that he was illiterate? Is therefore your presence on this forum not against your professed position above? Illiterate or not he certainly did not use computers. So I can only assume that not only do you attempt to life your life as he did..... but you have to engage in make believe as to what he WOULD have done were he alive today.... so to justify your use of computers you would simply have to assume that were he alive today he would have used them too?

And what of your quite horrendous opinions on suicide? Did he express the same opinions, or are they your own?

Not to mention all the things he did not do or study in his life which Muslims all over the world are doing. Did he surf? Run marathons? Play football or other sports? Start a business? Open a restaurant? He simply could not have engaged in all careers or academic pursuits or hobbies or art or literature and much more.

What you propose above in your ridiculous suggestion, which again I simply hope I am misreading, is merely a stifling, subjugation stultification of human individuality and diversity.

The concept that in the grand diversity of our species, the thing that for me is the greatest source of the beauty of our species, we should all strive to be near-clones of one single individual is as patently abhorrent to me as is the personality cult that generates it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The person must know it is a sin
That quite differs from how we do law in this world doesn't it? Given that ignorance of a law is not an excuse when breaking it? Do you believe in sin, unlike law, that ignorance is an excuse in all cases? Or do you have caveats on some examples or contexts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
They must know it will entail a punishment
It is a dodgy morality that requires this caveat. It is not enough for an adherent to simply know right from wrong, but they have to be aware of the consequences that will be forced upon them too? Forgive my pride, but I am quite happy to know that I refrain from wrong doing for no other reason than it is wrong doing. The punishment for doing such things could not be less relevant to me, or my choice to abstain from such actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
They must have the intent to sin. They must be acting of their own free will and with full knowledge of what they are doing.
At least here we agree or at least overlap. I think intention is everything in morality.
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