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Old 10-26-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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I personally believe that the reason many non-Muslims think Islam condones honor killings is because their is no sharia law that prescribes a punishment for it. the assumption being that because there is no prescribed punishment it is condoned.

It is true Murder under Sharia is not a Hadd Crime (A crime with a prescribed punishment). Punishment for murder comes under Civil law. the family of the victim gets to choose what they desire to be done to the perpetrator. They have to decide what is to be done with the perpetrator. They have 3 choices The convicted is to:

1. Be Put to death

2, Pay financial restitution

3. Be Forgiven with no Punishment
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,087,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Hardly fair, the OT is Jewish, a thousand years earlier, and understandably outdated.
Even the Jews themselves realize this.

When was the last Jewish honor killing.
It is the same OT that fundamentalist christians haul out to discriminate against gays. Apparently then it is valid but not it the case of stoning children?

Picking and choosing are we?
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:47 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
It is the same OT that fundamentalist christians haul out to discriminate against gays. Apparently then it is valid but not it the case of stoning children?

Picking and choosing are we?
Yes, it is the same one,

I just hate it when those Jews hang gays, and stone kids, oops, that's Iran.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:50 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I personally believe that the reason many non-Muslims think Islam condones honor killings is because their is no sharia law that prescribes a punishment for it. the assumption being that because there is no prescribed punishment it is condoned.

It is true Murder under Sharia is not a Hadd Crime (A crime with a prescribed punishment). Punishment for murder comes under Civil law. the family of the victim gets to choose what they desire to be done to the perpetrator. They have to decide what is to be done with the perpetrator. They have 3 choices The convicted is to:

1. Be Put to death

2, Pay financial restitution

3. Be Forgiven with no Punishment
Actually punishments are ordered sometimes, and sometimes a guy serves a few months in jail.

Of course when you do premeditated murder here in the states, you get life, or death.
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:05 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;37028682]I personally believe that the reason many non-Muslims think Islam condones honor killings is because their is no sharia law that prescribes a punishment for it. the assumption being that because there is no prescribed punishment it is condoned.
/quote]

Personal belief's are not on line here,

Most non-muslims do not know why.

The verses are not advertised by Islam, in fact they are hidden, or tried to be explained as something other than what they actually say.

Most honor killings are for the person being anti-Islamic, which can be just about anything, at the fathers disgression.
ie. not wearing a hijab
becoming to westernized.
dating a non muslim boy.

etc, etc, etc.

Shall I dig up the verses, there are quite a few.
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:09 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
It is the same OT that fundamentalist christians haul out to discriminate against gays. Apparently then it is valid but not it the case of stoning children?

Picking and choosing are we?

fundamentalist Christians are annoying

Muslims kill you.
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:12 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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Probably the most radicle Christian group in America is the Westboro Baptist church.

They are also the laughingstock of most of Christianity, and for some mysterious reason, these people, as insane as they are, have not killed anyone.
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
[quote=Jim_a49;37029313]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I personally believe that the reason many non-Muslims think Islam condones honor killings is because their is no sharia law that prescribes a punishment for it. the assumption being that because there is no prescribed punishment it is condoned.
/quote]

Personal belief's are not on line here,

Most non-muslims do not know why.

The verses are not advertised by Islam, in fact they are hidden, or tried to be explained as something other than what they actually say.

Most honor killings are for the person being anti-Islamic, which can be just about anything, at the fathers disgression.
ie. not wearing a hijab
becoming to westernized.
dating a non muslim boy.

etc, etc, etc.

Shall I dig up the verses, there are quite a few.
I have probably read those verses many times.



Would be a bit pointless to discuss them. We would just have a disagreement over the interpretations.

Going back to a few posts back. Can you name one Islamic Nation besides Pakistan, in which "Honor Killings" are epidemic?
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:14 PM
 
116 posts, read 67,395 times
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Domestic violence murders (Femicide) are not a "Muslim" issue and framing it this way is prejudicial.
for example:-
In the U.S. African American women between the ages of 15 to 35 are most likely to die from domestic violence murders---it is a leading cause of death.
from:-
African American Women Disproportionately At Risk For Death by Domestic Violence - HG.org

"According to studies, while prior domestic violence is the top risk factor in determining future attacks, unemployment is “by far the most important demographic” in putting someone at risk to be killed by an intimate partner. The latest national unemployment rate for blacks is 13%, more than double the 6.4% for whites. For black men, that figure is 13.5%, compared with 6.2% for white males.

Interestingly, unemployed white males were as statistically likely to kill their partners as unemployed black men, but because the black unemployment rate is higher, there is a correspondingly higher rate of domestic violence deaths. Experts believe that this ties to the American sense that having a job equates to the quality of one's masculinity. If a man lacks employment, the lack the prestige of that job and, if they lack control over anything else, they will try to assert it over their partner."

also
Get the Facts | Futures Without Violence Futures Without Violence
Prevalence of Domestic Violence in the United States
On average more than three women a day are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in the United States.

WHO uses the term Femicide for a wide range of murders against women including both intimate femicide (murdered by family) and non-intimate femicide (murdered by strangers)
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1..._12.38_eng.pdf

Several global surveys suggest that half of all women who die from homicide are killed by their current or former husbands or partners.

also.....

In Australia, Canada, and Israel 40 to 70 per cent of female murder victims were killed by their partners, according to the World Health Organization.
In the United States, one-third of women murdered each year are killed by intimate partners.
In South Africa, a woman is killed every six hours by an intimate partner.
In India, 22 women were killed each day in dowry-related murders in 2007.
In Guatemala, two women are murdered, on average, each day.
UNiTE To End Violence Against Women

To put things in perspective---homicidal violence against women/Femicide is a worldwide human problem and occurs in rich as well as poor societies. It is not helpful to use prejudicial terms to target only one group of people because such scapegoating obscures the reality and seriousness of the issue. ALL of us on this planet must join hands and work together to build societies in which our women are SAFE.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:43 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;37029493]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post

I have probably read those verses many times.



Would be a bit pointless to discuss them. We would just have a disagreement over the interpretations.

Going back to a few posts back. Can you name one Islamic Nation besides Pakistan, in which "Honor Killings" are epidemic?
They are hardly an epidemic anywhere, I think there were only 5000 or so, documented last year; but 91% of them were muslim.
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