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Old 10-26-2014, 08:47 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamsiam View Post
Domestic violence murders (Femicide) are not a "Muslim" issue and framing it this way is prejudicial.
for example:-
In the U.S. African American women between the ages of 15 to 35 are most likely to die from domestic violence murders---it is a leading cause of death.
from:-
African American Women Disproportionately At Risk For Death by Domestic Violence - HG.org

"According to studies, while prior domestic violence is the top risk factor in determining future attacks, unemployment is “by far the most important demographic” in putting someone at risk to be killed by an intimate partner. The latest national unemployment rate for blacks is 13%, more than double the 6.4% for whites. For black men, that figure is 13.5%, compared with 6.2% for white males.

Interestingly, unemployed white males were as statistically likely to kill their partners as unemployed black men, but because the black unemployment rate is higher, there is a correspondingly higher rate of domestic violence deaths. Experts believe that this ties to the American sense that having a job equates to the quality of one's masculinity. If a man lacks employment, the lack the prestige of that job and, if they lack control over anything else, they will try to assert it over their partner."

also
Get the Facts | Futures Without Violence Futures Without Violence
Prevalence of Domestic Violence in the United States
On average more than three women a day are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in the United States.

WHO uses the term Femicide for a wide range of murders against women including both intimate femicide (murdered by family) and non-intimate femicide (murdered by strangers)
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1..._12.38_eng.pdf

Several global surveys suggest that half of all women who die from homicide are killed by their current or former husbands or partners.

also.....

In Australia, Canada, and Israel 40 to 70 per cent of female murder victims were killed by their partners, according to the World Health Organization.
In the United States, one-third of women murdered each year are killed by intimate partners.
In South Africa, a woman is killed every six hours by an intimate partner.
In India, 22 women were killed each day in dowry-related murders in 2007.
In Guatemala, two women are murdered, on average, each day.
UNiTE To End Violence Against Women

To put things in perspective---homicidal violence against women/Femicide is a worldwide human problem and occurs in rich as well as poor societies. It is not helpful to use prejudicial terms to target only one group of people because such scapegoating obscures the reality and seriousness of the issue. ALL of us on this planet must join hands and work together to build societies in which our women are SAFE.
for some reason you are insisting on classifying domestic violence with honor killing, they are two completely different things.

Most domestic violence is unplanned, fits of rage, usually with drugs or alcohol involved.
There is no religious connection, though the people could be of many different religions or none at all.

Honor killings are pre-meditiated murder, for religious purposes, allowed, in writing, in Islam.

Really need to get your info straight.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:50 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,331,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I personally believe that the reason many non-Muslims think Islam condones honor killings is because their is no sharia law that prescribes a punishment for it. the assumption being that because there is no prescribed punishment it is condoned.

It is true Murder under Sharia is not a Hadd Crime (A crime with a prescribed punishment). Punishment for murder comes under Civil law. the family of the victim gets to choose what they desire to be done to the perpetrator. They have to decide what is to be done with the perpetrator. They have 3 choices The convicted is to:

1. Be Put to death

2, Pay financial restitution

3. Be Forgiven with no Punishment
Sharia law is something that I really can not understand. I know this is off topic, but I can't believe that most Muslims are pro Sharia Law. Do you think this will ever change? Do Muslims believe that it is okay to behead someone even if they did not commit a violent crime?
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:53 PM
 
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And keep in mind, there are no stats for domestic violence in Islamic countries, because you are allowed to beat your wife.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:15 PM
 
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Tabari IX:113
"Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

"A Woman may be likened to a sheep—even a cow or a camel—for all are ridden.” (Tafsir al-Qurtubi vol.15, p.172)

Sunan Dawud book 11, 2141
[after first forbidding wife beating, Muhammad changes his mind] "...Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah and said 'Women have become emboldened towards their husbands', the Prophet gave permission to beat them."

Dawud 2142
"Narrated Umar ibn al-KhattabThe Prophet said, “A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."
"Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: When a man invites his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he (the husband) spends the night being angry with her, the angels curse her until morning." (Sahih Muslim Vol. 2, p. 723)
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleynj View Post
Sharia law is something that I really can not understand. I know this is off topic, but I can't believe that most Muslims are pro Sharia Law. Do you think this will ever change? Do Muslims believe that it is okay to behead someone even if they did not commit a violent crime?
Actual sharia is quite a bit different from what the media portrays as Sharia.

Western law such as found in the UK and US have a strong resemblance to it and they are structured much the same although Sharia predates them

Sharia is very complex, but in summation it is Islamic Jurisprudence based uon one of 4 different approaches to legal practice.

To give you a short view of the Hanafi Madhab of Sharia check HERE
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:46 PM
 
116 posts, read 67,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
for some reason you are insisting on classifying domestic violence with honor killing, they are two completely different things.

Most domestic violence is unplanned, fits of rage, usually with drugs or alcohol involved.
There is no religious connection, though the people could be of many different religions or none at all.

Honor killings are pre-meditiated murder, for religious purposes, allowed, in writing, in Islam.

Really need to get your info straight.
You are incorrect
You have bought into the prejudicial framework of the definition.
(Domestic violence is not "unplanned" and honor killing is not "religious")


In some societies in the Far East, "Honor killing" means male suicide (boys and men)...that is why terms like femicide---while important, are still prejudicial. (In the East, there is a practice known as "saving face")
Japanese Suicide: The Growing Epidemic - Home
Not all male suicides are "honor killing"----but some could be categorized as such, which is why seeing the world in gender segregated terms is not always helpful.
Abuse of men by those in power and/or privilege---such as police---is not uncommon. There is much talk among the African American community of "being shot while black" ---by gun-carrying Americans....

In its most general framework---this is an issue about control and abuse of power and privilege.....
generally( and simplistically)....uneven distribution of power can cause abuses......
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:11 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,331,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actual sharia is quite a bit different from what the media portrays as Sharia.

Western law such as found in the UK and US have a strong resemblance to it and they are structured much the same although Sharia predates them

Sharia is very complex, but in summation it is Islamic Jurisprudence based uon one of 4 different approaches to legal practice.

To give you a short view of the Hanafi Madhab of Sharia check HERE
I have read a little about it and it is complex. I have also read that the majority of Muslims support it.
In Saudi Arabia a few months ago four people were beheaded for drug related charges and one man for sorcery. I don't see how this can be supported by people.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleynj View Post
I have read a little about it and it is complex. I have also read that the majority of Muslims support it.
In Saudi Arabia a few months ago four people were beheaded for drug related charges and one man for sorcery. I don't see how this can be supported by people.
Saudi you have to keep in mind is a Monarchy and for all practical purposes the laws are written by the al-Saud Family.

Like in Western law each nation pretty much has it's own laws. The people do establish the laws and set the penalties. While the madhab establishes the basis, the individual nations establish the laws.

However, only 2 Nations (Saudi & Iran) claim to follow Shariah Criminal Laws. Most Islamic Nations use Shariah for civil disputes only. And use Western Style Secular laws for Criminal law.

Iran follows the Jafa'ari Madhab which is recognized as Sharia only in Iran. Saudi Uses rhe Hambali Madhab and is the only nation to do so. Their version of Shariah has been modified by a Wahhabi influence and the desires of the Monarchy.

There are no existing Nations that follow actual Shariah.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:58 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,331,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Saudi you have to keep in mind is a Monarchy and for all practical purposes the laws are written by the al-Saud Family.

Like in Western law each nation pretty much has it's own laws. The people do establish the laws and set the penalties. While the madhab establishes the basis, the individual nations establish the laws.

However, only 2 Nations (Saudi & Iran) claim to follow Shariah Criminal Laws. Most Islamic Nations use Shariah for civil disputes only. And use Western Style Secular laws for Criminal law.

Iran follows the Jafa'ari Madhab which is recognized as Sharia only in Iran. Saudi Uses rhe Hambali Madhab and is the only nation to do so. Their version of Shariah has been modified by a Wahhabi influence and the desires of the Monarchy.

There are no existing Nations that follow actual Shariah.
ok, thank you for that explanation. I could not understand why Muslims would support Sharia law, but you are saying that they only support some of it in certain cases.

I used to travel to Europe often, and met many Arabs. They certainly enjoyed drinking and smoking (not cigarettes). It is strange they have such strict punishment for drug crimes.

I know this may not be popular with many, but I actually support the death penalty. I just think it should be reserved for the most heinous crimes. I read that there was a man beheaded in Saudi Arabia for torturing and killing his infant son. In this case I support the decision to kill him. I am not sure if beheading is much different than lethal injection. It certainly does sound and look more barbaric, but I am not sure if it is more painful.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,278 posts, read 5,491,414 times
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As an American let me first preface by saying---we need to get our own house in order. And secondly, I don't believe we have as good a chance of that as our northern neighbors.

Canada has had arguably the most welcoming immigration policy of any nation in the world--and no doubt the wisest. As near as I can decipher there are no racial or religious barriers. Parliament has welcomed different ethnic representation into it. But you are careful to allow in only people who, at least on paper, can contribute to improving the nation.

The amalgamation of many different groups is difficult and the first thing that is obvious is we don't understand other cultures and backgrounds. This sometimes leads to mistrust and almost always then leads to mistaken conclusions such as "Muslims don't care," or "Muslims don't care the way I think they should." Is that a correct way to view others? Not necessarily.

The attacks by some extremist Muslims on Western society has brought many charges against the religion--they are murderous, women don't have equality and can't get an education. That is true about SOME Muslim countries, but certainly not all. Turkey has equality for women and at one time had one of the most powerful women leaders in the world. But she led Turkey which gets little Western coverage. What about Indonesia which has the largest Muslim majority of any Muslim nation, but has equality for women? You don't hear about beheadings in those nations? There is no inordinate fear or recalcitrance for visiting those countries.

So why conclude Muslims don't care? The culture among Muslim nations varies around the world, and those with the smaller populations appear to be the more combative. Is it possible no outcry was heard in Canada about the terror attacks is because Muslims living there want to keep a low profile right now-- like they did here in the U.S. after 9/11.

I'm not drawing any conclusions here. I'm suggesting that a lot more thought needs to be brought to the issue as opposed to visceral reaction.

Best wishes to all Canadians, regardless of religion or country of origin.
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