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Old 10-31-2014, 01:16 AM
 
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Basically, if your God is telling you to kill someone.


That's not God, you are speaking to.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
And I think you will find the reason is because all of the others have already been exiled or killed.

It does teach peace within their own group.

It does teach war with non-believers.

Yes, there will always be exceptions, but to follow the religion as written, there is no room for exceptions.
Here is where you seem to be having a misunderstanding about Islam. We have covered this in many posts.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Here is where you seem to be having a misunderstanding about Islam. We have covered this in many posts.
Yes we have, and you have failed to put up a defense other than cherry picking from a small perrcentage of the text, and misrepresenting what you do argue about.
My arguments are not what a person believes, from his own particular learnings, which are tainted depending on what the intentions, and directions of the teacher.
My arguments are the written doctrine, from the earliest writings, and the anthropologicai, archeological, and historical evidence, supporting my claims.
My arguments support the actions of muslim terror worldwide, who the apologists are saying misinterpret the religion.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Yes we have, and you have failed to put up a defense other than cherry picking from a small perrcentage of the text, and misrepresenting what you do argue about.
My arguments are not what a person believes, from his own particular learnings, which are tainted depending on what the intentions, and directions of the teacher.
My arguments are the written doctrine, from the earliest writings, and the anthropologicai, archeological, and historical evidence, supporting my claims.
My arguments support the actions of muslim terror worldwide, who the apologists are saying misinterpret the religion.
Sorry, but the historical events in the Qur'an are not commands and Ishaq's "Sirat ul Rasul" is not the Sunnah,

The easiest way to find what Islam teaches would be to study the 4 Madhabs.

The teaching of Islam is summed up in a single phrase: "Read and accept that which you have verified to be True."

We ourself have the responsibility to learn what Islam is, we do not rely upon teachers except as a starting point to discover sources of learning.

There is no neatly wrapped formula to study and call it Islam. Islam is a way of life not a listing of commandments.

The Guides to use are the Qur'an and Sunnah, The Sunnah being the "VERIFIED" actions and words of Muhammad(saws) Some places to look are in the Ahadith and the various Sira. But we do have the responsibility to verify the accuracy of what we read and not accept anything as true without verification.
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Old 10-31-2014, 10:14 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,089,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Yes we have, and you have failed to put up a defense other than cherry picking from a small perrcentage of the text, and misrepresenting what you do argue about.
My arguments are not what a person believes, from his own particular learnings, which are tainted depending on what the intentions, and directions of the teacher.
My arguments are the written doctrine, from the earliest writings, and the anthropologicai, archeological, and historical evidence, supporting my claims.
My arguments support the actions of muslim terror worldwide, who the apologists are saying misinterpret the religion.
To be frank, that same could be said about much of the OT and Christian era, up to about the 1800's.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
To be frank, that same could be said about much of the OT and Christian era, up to about the 1800's.
The same could be said about many things, however we are not speaking of them.
We are speaking of Islam.

This is a typical diversion.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:43 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,083,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Sorry, but the historical events in the Qur'an are not commands and Ishaq's "Sirat ul Rasul" is not the Sunnah,

The easiest way to find what Islam teaches would be to study the 4 Madhabs.

The teaching of Islam is summed up in a single phrase: "Read and accept that which you have verified to be True."

We ourself have the responsibility to learn what Islam is, we do not rely upon teachers except as a starting point to discover sources of learning.

There is no neatly wrapped formula to study and call it Islam. Islam is a way of life not a listing of commandments.

The Guides to use are the Qur'an and Sunnah, The Sunnah being the "VERIFIED" actions and words of Muhammad(saws) Some places to look are in the Ahadith and the various Sira. But we do have the responsibility to verify the accuracy of what we read and not accept anything as true without verification.
I believe we have gone over this, and you are repeating the same things.
Nobody said these were commands, On the contrary they are events which Islam has documented, granted, none can be proven, like all of Islam, but biographical material, that worked just fine for 1200 years.
Only now, in the 21st century is Islam rejecting them to the west, as they naturally have to do.

But the problem is there is nothing they can put in their place other than invented books to serve the west.

As we can see in world events, people still follow the teachings of muhammed, regardless of what is spoon fed to the west.

BTW, if you remove Muhammed from Islam, it is comparable to removing Jesus from Christianity.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:48 PM
 
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And btw, Islam is cursed with one verse in the Qur'an, that can be taken as a command.

You have in the messenger a beautiful pattern of conduct to follow.( Qur'an.)

Please tell ne where a person goes to learn this pattern of conduct you are supposed to follow.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:15 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,089,056 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Yes we have, and you have failed to put up a defense other than cherry picking from a small perrcentage of the text, and misrepresenting what you do argue about.
My arguments are not what a person believes, from his own particular learnings, which are tainted depending on what the intentions, and directions of the teacher.
My arguments are the written doctrine, from the earliest writings, and the anthropologicai, archeological, and historical evidence, supporting my claims.
My arguments support the actions of muslim terror worldwide, who the apologists are saying misinterpret the religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
The same could be said about many things, however we are not speaking of them.
We are speaking of Islam.

This is a typical diversion.
We may not be speaking about other religions, however, what you said above applies to the Christian ones as well as the Muslim sects. Same arguments, same reactions, until, sometime in the 1800's, Christians finally 'grew up'. There are some fundamentalist christians who would love to revert to the old ways.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:00 PM
 
116 posts, read 67,421 times
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The Quranic wisdom is nuanced and sophisticated, its ethico-moral principles are balanced and create harmony with human nature as well as creation, Its world-view---Tawheed(Unity) is simple enough for a child to understand, yet its ramifications are wide ranging that it can challenge mature minds.....The application of the ethico-moral principles as a way of life (as taught by the Prophet) promotes Justice and Equality...it empowers people and at the same time demands responsibility. Islam is a way towards inner and outer peace.

Here is what Angelika Neuwirth...a revisionist historian has to say about the Quran....(IMO, revisionist historians tend to have biases against the the Muslim understanding of Islamic history)

"Neuwirth: If one reads and interprets the Koran as a kind of information medium – as many contemporary Koranic researchers do – one does not do justice to it. The Koran is heavily poetic and contains a whole range of messages that it imparts at a semantic level – not at all explicitly, not at all unambiguously; it gets these messages across through poetic structures; if it didn't, it wouldn't be as vivid as it is. What makes the Koran unique is its complexity, its multiple layers, the fact that it speaks at different levels. On the one hand, of course, that is the huge aesthetic attraction. However, it is also, if you like, hugely attractive in rhetorical terms or in terms of its power of conviction.
While it might be possible to sum up the mere information in the Koran in a short newspaper article, the effect would not have been the same. It really is about enchantment through language. Language itself is also praised in the Koran as the highest gift that humankind received from God. Naturally, this is related to knowledge. Language is the medium of knowledge. This is why one should never on top of everything else accuse the Islamic culture of being averse to knowledge. The entire Koran is basically a paean to knowledge, the knowledge that is articulated through speech.

What parallels are there between the Koran and the religious scriptures of the Jews and the Christians? What exactly is it that makes the Koran stand out or what new aspect did the Koran bring?

Neuwirth: The Koran must have brought something new; after all, it came into the world so many hundreds of years after the last and previous holy scripture – about 500 years after the New Testament. On the one hand, I would say that it is its insistence that knowledge is an immensely important part of human life and of human religious life too. This is not, for example, important in the New Testament. The New Testament focuses on other things; as does the Torah, the Old Testament, in other words the Hebrew Bible....."
from:
Islam as a Culture of Knowledge

This is what Malcom X said about Islam.....
"There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white."

"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color."

"You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth."

"During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept on the same rug - while praying to the same God - with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the deeds of the white Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana."

"We were truly all the same (brothers) - because their belief in one God had removed the white from their minds, the white from their behavior, and the white from their attitude."

"I could see from this, that perhaps if white Americans could accept the Oneness of God, then perhaps, too, they could accept in reality the Oneness of Man - and cease to measure, and hinder, and harm others in terms of their 'differences' in color."
(Bold is mine)
from:
Malcolm X's (Al-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) Letter from Mecca

This is what historian Karen Armstrong writes in her book Muhammed: the Prophet for our time.

"As a paradigmatic personality, Muhammed has important lessons, not only for Muslims, but also for Western people. His life was a jihad: as we shall see, this word does not mean "holy war", it means "struggle". Muhammed literally sweated with the effort to bring peace to war-torn Arabia, and we need people who are prepared to do this today. His life was tireless campaign against greed, injustice, and arrogance. He realized that Arabia was at a turning point and that the old way of thinking would no longer suffice, so he wore himself out in the creative effort to evolve an entirely new solution. We entered another era of history on September 11, and must strive with equal intensity to develop a different outlook."
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