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Old 11-06-2014, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Christians lynched for allegedly burning Koran - the religion of peace, again.

Mob lynches Christian couple in Pakistan, dozens arrested
You may notice that 44 people have been arrested for this horrible deed. Does not seem it was "Authorized" or "Approved" by the Islamic Government of Pakistan.
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You may notice that 44 people have been arrested for this horrible deed. Does not seem it was "Authorized" or "Approved" by the Islamic Government of Pakistan.
I am curious what will happen here, Blasphemy charges, even when they go to court, are punishable by death in Muslim-majority Pakistan. They are hard to fight because the law does not define clearly what is blasphemous. Presenting the evidence can sometimes itself be considered a fresh infringement.

Considering the number of people involved indicates the mindset of the society

I seriously doubt this will go much further
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I am curious what will happen here, Blasphemy charges, even when they go to court, are punishable by death in Muslim-majority Pakistan. They are hard to fight because the law does not define clearly what is blasphemous. Presenting the evidence can sometimes itself be considered a fresh infringement.

Considering the number of people involved indicates the mindset of the society

I seriously doubt this will go much further
There is a bit of an Issue here.

While Pakistan does not actually follow Sharia, they do claim to follow the Hanafi Madhab. Under the Hanafi Blasphemy is not a punishable crime. However, the Hanafi Madhab provides for laws to be made by majority consensus.


A little information about the Hanafi Madhab:

Quote:
The Quran and Sunnah however did not offer the solution to every specific case that ever came before the community. The jurists in that case had recourse to such legal methods as Ijma (consensus) and Qiyas (analogical deduction). Ijma refers to the process of obtaining consensus regarding a particular legal problem among the Companions, their successors or all the mujtahids of any one of the future generations.
SOURCE

This gives a good bit of flexibility for laws that are not clearly defined in the Qur'an or Sunnah.

In the past few years there has been a growing anti-Christian trend, in Pakistan.. I am hard pressed to put a finger on the reason but personally feel it is the result of Wahhabi influence and anti-Western Sentiment. As recently as 2010 Pakastanis were very tolerant of non-Muslims

Quote:
Nearly 70% Pakistanis support Christians to build churches
09:26, January 09, 2010

As many as 69 percent of Pakistanis believed that Christians in Muslim countries like Pakistan should be allowed to construct churches for worship, a survey said on Friday.

SOURCE

The Anti Blasphemy law as a very strange history. It was introduced by the British during the colonial era as a means to enforce religious tolerance.

Quote:
The Blasphemy law is a part of the Pakistan Penal Code, which was introduced in 1860 by the British Government to protect religious feelings. It may be observed that Section 295 provides protection to worship places of all classes of religions living in the subcontinent. It does not contain element of discrimination or preference to any class. It maintains equality of all before the law. The law appears to maintain mutual harmony and peace as well as to promote sense of mutual tolerance, understanding and respect in the multifaceted society of the subcontinent. This section represents the typical example of a secular democratic law for benefit of all and loss to none.

SOURCE


It should be noted the law applies to all religions not Just Islam. In Pakistan one can receive the death penalty for Blaspheming Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc. It is not limited to just blaspheming Islam.

A pretty sizable part of the population is seeking to repeal the law. One of the best arguments for repeal comes from Dr. Zaheer

Quote:
If a Blasphemy Law must exist, from an Islamic point of view, Dr. Zaheer believes it must satisfy the following conditions:

a) Capital punishment cannot be given to a person who is found guilty of committing blasphemy. According to the Qur’an, capital punishment can only be given to murderers and those who take the law into their hands. (Qur’an; 5:32)

b) The punishment should be applicable to those found guilty of blasphemy against revered personalities, deities of all faiths and it should be equally applicable to both Muslims and non-Muslims. The Qur’an says: “Don’t use abusive language against their false gods lest they should use the same language against yours in retaliation.” (Qur’an; 6:108)

Ultimately, though, most civil society participants in the debate on the blasphemy law believe that to ensure the fundamental human rights of all citizens, irrespective of class, caste and creed, as envisaged by Pakistan’s founder, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the current government needs to repeal the law without further delay.
SOURCE

It should be noted that under Pakistan's Blasphemy law no one has ever been executed. However, quite a few people have been murdered by mobs. It is often necessary to arrest the accused, keep them in solitary and quickly get them out of the country for their own protection.
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:59 AM
 
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Good info, thanks.


I'm going to keep an eye on this.
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Old 11-06-2014, 05:00 PM
 
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Pakistani police officer axes man to death over blasphemy
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starrider434 View Post
This is a problem we will start to see here in Dearborn mich soon, if not already.
Nothing as drastic as killing yet, but as the muslim population grows, so will the employees of the courts and police department.

We will see violations of American law being ignored, in favor of Sharia, even though it may not be written up yet.
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
This is a problem we will start to see here in Dearborn mich soon, if not already.
Nothing as drastic as killing yet, but as the muslim population grows, so will the employees of the courts and police department.

We will see violations of American law being ignored, in favor of Sharia, even though it may not be written up yet.
That is true

When an ethnic group(Ethnic being Race, Religion, National origins, Sexual orientation etc) becomes dominate in a locality, the majority of crimes will be by people of that ethnicity. Your comment is true. But it is applicable to all ethnic groups

It was not very long ago the following could have been said

Quote:
This is a problem we will start to see here in Boston MA soon, if not already.
Nothing as drastic as killing yet, but as the Irish/Catholic population grows, so will the employees of the courts and police department.

We will see violations of American law being ignored, in favor of Papal Authority, even though it may not be written up yet.
Quote:
This is a problem we will start to see here in New Jersey soon, if not already.
Nothing as drastic as killing yet, but as the Italian population grows, so will the employees of the courts and police department.

We will see violations of American law being ignored, in favor of Mafia, even though it may not be written up yet.
Quote:
This is a problem we will start to see here in Hartford CT soon, if not already.
Nothing as drastic as killing yet, but as the Black population grows, so will the employees of the courts and police department.

We will see violations of American law being ignored, in favor of Black Culture, even though it may not be written up yet.
I doubt that Dearborn and Pakistan are comparable. Pakistan is fairly recent as an independent Nation. It was a manufactured nation and never developed as the founders desired. Soon after it's formation The central government became corrupted and fell apart. There has not been a stable government for nearly the entire existence of Pakistan. Corruption and money are the government of Pakistan, not Islam. While there are very many good people in Pakistan the government that rules has nearly always been the puppets of foreign Nations.

While it is very probable there will be abuses of power in Dearborn as the minority becomes the majority, keep in mind Dearborn is still subject to state and federal laws. I have Faith that if the same were to happen in Dearborn, the culprits would be brought to justice by the higher courts. The wheels of US law do often turn slow, but they do turn,

The best example is seeing what has been happening to long standing corrupt police departments, Government Corruption in the US is not tolerated without intervention.

The increase of the Muslim population need not be feared anymore than the rise in the Black, Catholic and Italian populations were. They grew, and the nation did not collapse.

There is no need to fear the boogey-man. Far better we learn from the past and take care to avoid stereotyping those who seem different. Fear and anger are precursors of injustices.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:19 PM
 
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While we will always see preference towards ethnic groups change with the tide, the big difference with muslims is religion, and not ethnics.

People mistakenly call Muslims a race, which it is not.

Muslims consist of every ethnic on earth, but the lean will not be to their particular race, but rather their religion, which crosses all lines.

Islam is a political ideology more than a religion, and the rules and laws, just do not mesh with American laws, in many cases directly oppose them, and we will see the enforcement of these laws, as the enforcers themselves become representatives of the new law, change drastically.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:23 PM
 
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For examples.

Blacks, for the most part conform with American laws, and do not have a book with a new set of them.

Italians conform with American laws, and do not have their own set of laws.

Catholics conform with American laws, and do not have a book with different ones.

Muslims, when a tiny percentage of the population, conform with American laws, but when their population percentage grows, they insist on the laws from their religion.

And they do have a book for them.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:24 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,502,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
This is a problem we will start to see here in Dearborn mich soon, if not already.
Nothing as drastic as killing yet, but as the muslim population grows, so will the employees of the courts and police department.

We will see violations of American law being ignored, in favor of Sharia, even though it may not be written up yet.
It's already happening in the UK - I refer here to 'Sharia gangs' - groups of young Muslim men patrolling the streets of East London, warning people not to drink alcohol in public (legal in the UK), (store owners who sell alcohol have apparently been threatened with 40 lashes), admonishing young women for wearing miniskirts, the same with couples holding hands etc. I'd say, refusing to be complacent about that has nothing to do with fear mongering - everything to do with pragmatism.
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