U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-08-2014, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Non-belief
Isn't that Atheism?
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-08-2014, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
As I pointed out earlier, in a secular world a lack of belief in a god is a non event (it doesn't have to be a mantra, something consequential), in a religious society, a belief in god is always an event.
As for no plan being a plan - we're getting locked into essentially meaningless semantics here.
Not really.

Just pointing out that we all have some form of ideology/doctrine which is the summation of our beliefs and disbelief.

Not too certain how we got off onto this tangent. It no longer strikes me as being of any importance.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 09:17 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,084,700 times
Reputation: 531
I'm curious how it bypasses the "Cult" phase, the predecessor to all religions, and becomes a religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 12:33 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,505,570 times
Reputation: 3870
Dawkins to Found Atheism Institute - VIZ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
I'm curious how it bypasses the "Cult" phase, the predecessor to all religions, and becomes a religion.
Cult is basically a sociology term. Been a long time since I took any sociology courses, Have to cheat and use google..

The 6 Characteristics of a Cult

Quote:
[1] Authoritarian Leadership

Authoritarianism involves the acceptance of an authority figure who exercises excessive control on cult members. As prophet or founder, this leader’s word is considered ultimate and final. . . .

Often this authoritarianism involves legalistic submission to the rules and regulations of the group as established by the cult leader (or, as in the case of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, submission to the Watchtower Society). Cult members are fully expected to submit, even if they do not agree with the requirements. Unquestioning obedience is compulsory.

[2] Exclusivism

Cults often believe that they alone have the truth. The cult views itself as the single means of salvation on earth; to leave the group is to endanger one’s soul. . . .

[3] Isolationism

The more extreme cults sometimes create fortified boundaries, often precipitating tragic endings (we have already mentioned the tragedies in Waco and Jonestown). Some cults require members to renounce and break off associations with parents and siblings. . . .

[4] Opposition to Independent Thinking

Some cultic groups discourage members from thinking independently. The “thinking,” as it were, has already been done for them by the cult leadership; the proper response is merely to submit. . . .

[5] Fear of Being “Disfellowshiped”

It is not uncommon in cults that people are urged to remain faithful to avoid being “disfellowshiped,” or disbarred, from the group. Again, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a prime example, for a person can be disfellowshiped merely for questioning a Watchtower doctrine. . . .

[6] Threats of Satanic Attack

Finally, some cults use fear and intimidation to keep members in line. Members may be told that something awful will happen to them should they choose to leave the group. Others may be told that Satan will attack them and may even kill them, for they will have committed the unpardonable sin. Such fear tactics are designed to induce submission. Even when people do muster enough courage to leave the group, they may endure psychological consequences and emotional baggage for years to come.
SOURCE

The 6 criteria are either not applicable or impossible to enforce. Number 5 is not applicable as there is no excommunication. Any person who states he is Muslim is accepted as being such.

With no ordained clergy there is no religious method of enforcing any "Rules" Number 6 is not applicable as Muslims do not give Shaytan the power to harm them. A shaytan can only tempt people to do wrong,

As there is no taught interpretation of any Islamic Scripture it is a personal responsibility to determine the correct interpretation. Free thinking is not only allowed, it is required.

Number 2 is not enforceable as Muslims do not know who is a Muslim. There are no identifying physical ways of knowing except accepting the person's word they are Muslim. Muslims do know all Muslims will reach heaven but they have no way of knowing who Allaah(swt) will find to be submitting to the best of their ability.

As most Muslims refuse to accept any human religious leader, number 1 is a moot point.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 01:47 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,084,700 times
Reputation: 531
I like your cult charactoristics

Exactly the same as a religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 01:49 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,084,700 times
Reputation: 531
[2] Exclusivism

Cults often believe that they alone have the truth. The cult views itself as the single means of salvation on earth; to leave the group is to endanger one’s soul. . . .

All the Abrahamic cults fit this one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 05:01 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,505,570 times
Reputation: 3870
The difference between a cult and a religion is only a matter of longevity.
Joe Bloggs declares himself to be the son or messenger of god. He develops a coterie of devout followers, there are claims of him pulling off stunts such as walking on water, dying and being born again, talk of flying equines, curing the odd person of some ailment, receiving direct messages from god and so on. He makes these claims from a soapbox in his front yard, in the local shopping center, the streets of the town where he lives. He puts notices in the paper or the public square. His devotees go from door to door proselytizing. All of this happens say 1400 or 2000 years ago = religion. Now = cult.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 05:06 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,084,700 times
Reputation: 531
All religions start out as cults.


It is when they gain money, power, people, they become religions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 08:42 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,097,410 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Isn't that Atheism?
That is exactly my point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top