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Old 10-24-2014, 10:28 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Woodrow, I respect you, but can you honestly say that there is a real desire to get involved by your compatriots? The rest of the world has not seen it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This is a question non-Muslims ask often in various forms.
And the answer is? Where is the sustained efforts that people like Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King undertook to fight wrongs?? Where is the Muslim equivalent of those?

And would such a Muslim equivalent be allowed to live long enough if he/she ever became prominent enough to have some influence? That is an honest question, right? Just look at Salman Rushdie
and what happened to him when he spoke out.

What will it take to get so many radicalized Muslims back to peaceful existence? You can't deny that it is not happening, because it is. There is no other religious group out there that has cohorts acting as the terrorists that Muslims do. Reality, not speculation.

Quote:
To me, the Question indicates that many non-Muslims have no idea as to how Muslims are structured.
We do not have any form of hierarchical structure. There is no "Big Daddy" Muslim that has the ability or authority to tell all the "Baby Muslims" how to behave.
Woodrow, you know darn well I am fully aware of the different branches of Islam and how it is structured. What point are you trying to make. Martin Luther King united many different people, black, white and various religions. He was not part of any structure, or a "Big Daddy" yet he was able to impact millions to positive change. Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King?

It appears Muslims are like NRA members. Attack one part of the philosophy, and no matter how extreme, there is a rallying around the troops, because we sure don't want to show any weakness.

Quote:
A Muslim that is a peace advocate is not likely to ever come in contact with a Terrorist. At least not knowingly. A potential terrorist is not prone to announce their intents to a person they know will oppose them.
No, but a Muslim who is a peace advocate certainly is pressured to shut up and keep quiet by even non-radicals if they push the issue to far.

Quote:
A recent trend I see occurring is the most violent Terrorists claiming to be Muslims are very recent converts. It is like there is some sort of mindset that if a person has violent tendencies they need to call them selves Muslims.
And that is the issue the one Canadian Iman advised that mosques need to be aware of.

Quote:
Simple observation. If a person campaigns against radicals they are moderates, A radical is not going to campaign against a radical. How would one recognize a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton of the Muslim World? They will not attract any media attention and probably never be mentioned in any news reports. A Muslim does not have any news value unless they are engaged in an atrocity. The world does not want to hear that Islam and most Muslims are peaceful.
Then it is up to the Muslims to change that. Mandela did it, King did it and Ghandi did it. They all had the same odds. Your just making excuses, not offering solutions with the above comment.

Quote:
The non-Muslims need to stay Deaf and Blind to the existence of Muslims that speak out against Terrorism. If we get seen to be peaceful the guilt over Iraq, Palestune and Afghanistan would devastate any decent American.
Not sure what your conveying here, so you may need to rephrase it if it is relevant.

Ask yourself this. We have now, although it took awhile, heard from moderate Canadian Muslims. Not one peep from the USA, Europe or especially from the Middle East.

Any comment on why that might be?
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:50 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A recent trend I see occurring is the most violent Terrorists claiming to be Muslims are very recent converts. It is like there is some sort of mindset that if a person has violent tendencies they need to call them selves Muslims.

.
Unfortunately this is not a recent trend, it has been going on forever, with all religions.
An accepted fact, and spoken of all the time.

Converts, as opposed to people born in the religion, tend to be more aggressive in preaching, and living the religion. Learning about it, and really getting into it.

I see it here with the Mormon converts.


But,

Mormon converts are annoying.

Muslim converts kill you.


You are sidestepping the written doctrine of the religion, instead offering your belief's, which are not consistent with the doctrine.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
And the answer is? Where is the sustained efforts that people like Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King undertook to fight wrongs?? Where is the Muslim equivalent of those?

And would such a Muslim equivalent be allowed to live long enough if he/she ever became prominent enough to have some influence? That is an honest question, right? Just look at Salman Rushdie
and what happened to him when he spoke out.

What will it take to get so many radicalized Muslims back to peaceful existence? You can't deny that it is not happening, because it is. There is no other religious group out there that has cohorts acting as the terrorists that Muslims do. Reality, not speculation.



Woodrow, you know darn well I am fully aware of the different branches of Islam and how it is structured. What point are you trying to make. Martin Luther King united many different people, black, white and various religions. He was not part of any structure, or a "Big Daddy" yet he was able to impact millions to positive change. Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King?

It appears Muslims are like NRA members. Attack one part of the philosophy, and no matter how extreme, there is a rallying around the troops, because we sure don't want to show any weakness.



No, but a Muslim who is a peace advocate certainly is pressured to shut up and keep quiet by even non-radicals if they push the issue to far.



And that is the issue the one Canadian Iman advised that mosques need to be aware of.



Then it is up to the Muslims to change that. Mandela did it, King did it and Ghandi did it. They all had the same odds. Your just making excuses, not offering solutions with the above comment.



Not sure what your conveying here, so you may need to rephrase it if it is relevant.

Ask yourself this. We have now, although it took awhile, heard from moderate Canadian Muslims. Not one peep from the USA, Europe or especially from the Middle East.

Any comment on why that might be?
Addressing the last question, which seems to sum up your questions.

I can only answer for myself. An individual can only do what they have access to and knowledge of.

We seem to have a bit of a shortage of radicals here in ND. Can you think of or know of any radical, Islamic organizations in North Dakota?

We only have 5 Mosques at the most. Although many of the Muslims here use one room in their house as a prayer room to share with family and neighbors.

Who on earth should I protest against in ND? What Islamic group is operating in ND and where are they? Every Muslim I know up here is opposed to groups like ISIS etc.

ND has one of the oldest ongoing Muslim populations in North America. The site of the First Mosque built specifically as a Mosque, the First Muslim Cemetery in North America. Many Native American Muslims. A fair size group of US military members that are Muslim. Lots of different flavors of Muslims, but a definite shortage of radicals and Terrorists. Although we do have a fair number of Muslim refugees from Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan that have faced terrorism at the hands of radicals.

I can find a listing, dating back to 1972 of 75 attacks in the USA done by people calling them self Muslim. SOURCE

Nearly all done by individual "nutjobs" acting alone.

Nearly all "Terrorist Acts" before 9/11 having been by NOI, which is a US founded religion and has no connection with the Mideast

We seem to have a shortage of groups to demonstrate against.

Yes we can protest about and condemn the radicals in other nations, Which we do.

I think you know that when it comes to American Muslims the answer we get from the Radicals in other nations is:



Yes we can and do condemn and protest. But there is a very big shortage of radical Muslims in the US to condemn and protest against.

Oh, we can campaign at the Mosques and let the Imams know we oppose the Radicals. Except there are only about 700 full time Imams in the US. In nearly every US Mosque each person is the Imam and we all take turns leading the prayers.

There are a little over 2100 Mosques in the US the 700 Full time Imams are affiliated with the 100 largest Mosques. 2000 or more Mosques have no Imam.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Unfortunately this is not a recent trend, it has been going on forever, with all religions.
An accepted fact, and spoken of all the time.

Converts, as opposed to people born in the religion, tend to be more aggressive in preaching, and living the religion. Learning about it, and really getting into it.

I see it here with the Mormon converts.


But,

Mormon converts are annoying.

Muslim converts kill you.


You are sidestepping the written doctrine of the religion, instead offering your belief's, which are not consistent with the doctrine.
Very many American Muslims are converts. Very few of us have killed anyone since accepting Islam.

Do you have any figures on Americans killed by American converts to Islam?

I suspect the number will be very low.

You still keep expressing your erroneous belief that we have a "Written Doctrine" that commands us to kill non-Muslims.

That seems to be a belief held by many non-Muslims. It is something many, probably most Muslims do not find to be true.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:44 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,449 times
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America is isolated from most muslim activity by an ocean, but that is changing, As was pointed out the terror and muslim activity is based on the muslim population percentage of the overall population.

We also have the problem of muslim terror that is not classified as such, and there have been many incidents.

Workplace violence is a good example.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:47 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
.

You still keep expressing your erroneous belief that we have a "Written Doctrine" that commands us to kill non-Muslims.

That seems to be a belief held by many non-Muslims. It is something many, probably most Muslims do not find to be true.
That is not a belief, muslims do have the written doctrine, I have posted a few of them.

Now, weather or not, they actually do it, is up to them, but when the words come from God, there will be a higher percentage of people who actually follow the commands.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:51 AM
 
14,306 posts, read 15,127,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lippa View Post
......I also don't see how it's terrorism. The targets were politicians/soldiers, if I am not mistaken.
Seriously? How in the hell did you arrive at that?
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:20 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,085,728 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Addressing the last question, which seems to sum up your questions.

I can only answer for myself. An individual can only do what they have access to and knowledge of.

We seem to have a bit of a shortage of radicals here in ND. Can you think of or know of any radical, Islamic organizations in North Dakota?

We only have 5 Mosques at the most. Although many of the Muslims here use one room in their house as a prayer room to share with family and neighbors.

Who on earth should I protest against in ND? What Islamic group is operating in ND and where are they? Every Muslim I know up here is opposed to groups like ISIS etc.

ND has one of the oldest ongoing Muslim populations in North America. The site of the First Mosque built specifically as a Mosque, the First Muslim Cemetery in North America. Many Native American Muslims. A fair size group of US military members that are Muslim. Lots of different flavors of Muslims, but a definite shortage of radicals and Terrorists. Although we do have a fair number of Muslim refugees from Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan that have faced terrorism at the hands of radicals.

I can find a listing, dating back to 1972 of 75 attacks in the USA done by people calling them self Muslim. SOURCE

Nearly all done by individual "nutjobs" acting alone.

Nearly all "Terrorist Acts" before 9/11 having been by NOI, which is a US founded religion and has no connection with the Mideast

We seem to have a shortage of groups to demonstrate against.

Yes we can protest about and condemn the radicals in other nations, Which we do.

I think you know that when it comes to American Muslims the answer we get from the Radicals in other nations is:



Yes we can and do condemn and protest. But there is a very big shortage of radical Muslims in the US to condemn and protest against.

Oh, we can campaign at the Mosques and let the Imams know we oppose the Radicals. Except there are only about 700 full time Imams in the US. In nearly every US Mosque each person is the Imam and we all take turns leading the prayers.

There are a little over 2100 Mosques in the US the 700 Full time Imams are affiliated with the 100 largest Mosques. 2000 or more Mosques have no Imam.
I think it would go along way if the media had some moderate Muslim spokespeople that would be viewed as the "go to" person not only when terrorist attacks occurred, but at other times like Ramadan. As I stated in my earlier posts, where are the Ghandis, Martin Luther Kings, or Mandelas of the Muslim world. And why are there no prominent moderate Muslim spokespeople know from the Middle East?

Look, I concur that the vast, vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and don't want anything to do with terrorism. But there is a but. The but is, why is the vast majority of religious terrorism coming from one religion, and why is there so little that the majority of that religion can do about it?

Those are legitimate questions, Woodrow, and and a sustained effort needs to happen from within the Muslim community. Otherwise those that would backlash will win.
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:38 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,082,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I think it would go along way if the media had some moderate Muslim spokespeople that would be viewed as the "go to" person not only when terrorist attacks occurred, but at other times like Ramadan. As I stated in my earlier posts, where are the Ghandis, Martin Luther Kings, or Mandelas of the Muslim world. And why are there no prominent moderate Muslim spokespeople know from the Middle East?

Look, I concur that the vast, vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and don't want anything to do with terrorism. But there is a but. The but is, why is the vast majority of religious terrorism coming from one religion, and why is there so little that the majority of that religion can do about it?

Those are legitimate questions, Woodrow, and and a sustained effort needs to happen from within the Muslim community. Otherwise those that would backlash will win.

The problem here is Islam will not produce any GO-TO people, other than the evasive CAIR types, who will make statements and not answer questions.

I have always stated, I would like to see a, NO BS, panel, on TV, with muslim scholars, and western Islamic scholars, putting the facts on the table.

Islam refuses to do this, and anyone who has studied the religion knows exactly why.
Islam will be exposed.
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,521 posts, read 9,402,418 times
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Most people who convert to Christianity study the religion first with the guidance of a pastor. Does a person who converts to Islam have to do the same?
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